And maybe there's a future where they do actually care and I will actually pay more for it.

So these are actually both my worlds and probably the link between how I ended up doing what I did from my old world.

So I used to work in commercial strategy and I unfortunately didn't work on all these lovely luxury brands.

I worked on very run of the mill kind of high volume products where cost is everything, right? And people were coming to me with all these sustainable packaging options.

And every time it was like, this is going to cost X amount more.

And when you've done all the testing and you've done all the research, you know that people will not pay more.

There is what we call a say-do gap.

We all want the same thing.