Do you think that cultural change

could happen? So I think, like many things, I think the reality is likely to be a bit more nuanced than some of the black and white articulation.

So on that, I'd maybe start with, Darren alluded to this earlier perhaps, the VFM framework.

So I see the VFM framework and its policing going in one of two directions now.

I think either everyone's going to be green and it's ineffectual, because there's still quite a lot of flex in there or the requirements in terms of the requirements in terms of complying with the VFM framework and the policing over it tighten and you do see more ambers or potentially at some point in time a red or two come in there.

EBCs So I'm not going to speak to other, I'll speak from personal experience and the way we look at it.

We don't look at the last three and five years of returns as a major factor in which provider's default is appropriate for a large group of individuals on a multi-decade forward-looking basis.

give us something i was going to say we should talk about retirement um i don't know if we got yeah three minutes three minutes