Mm-hmm.

Um, so a game, for the purposes of, of, you know, especially for educational game design for me, it is a system in which we have agreed to accomplish a goal within a set of arbitrary rules, and it's our job to make those rules playful.

So when you think about a lot of games, you're taking what is a very simple task, get this golf ball into the hole.

Can you get 21 without going over, et cetera? Uh, the easiest thing to do would be to just pick up the cards and say, "Okay, I have three sevens.

That's 21.

I win." But then there's abs- no arbitrary rules to keep, make it difficult for you to accomplish that task.

So we create arbitrary rules that like, okay, you can only get this many cards at a time.

Mm-hmm