Um, was there a specific moment or when it was more gradual?

Yeah.

For me, I felt, uh, it was, it wasn't a aha moment, but when I sh- I changed actually to a new industry, I was really opened up to actually a new set of managers that, that helped, uh, mentor me a little bit more and kind of saw some potential in me that I hadn't even seen in myself when it came to this profession.

And they really got me more serious, um, into, uh, learning a bit more behind the scenes, uh, taking it more seriously.

Uh, they, they offered me some books to read, um, letting me know that, "Hey, there is some opportunity for you." In this profession, if you really put the work in, because I was kind of just going, uh, about my 9:00 to 5:00 business, uh, in sales, trying to make a commission check here or there to make sure the bills are paid, make sure I had, you know, a little extra money for, say, a social life or, you know, a trip or something like that.

But they opened me up to saying, like, "No," like, "this can be something that you can, uh, hang your hat on long term, provide for yourself, your family, the people who rely on your support," much like they had done, you know, back at...

You know, this was probably about 10, 12 years ago when this happened.

[laughs]

What do you do, and what do you do for work? So my audience know exactly what you bring to the table in this conversation.

Yeah.

So, uh, I have been in the sales profession for, uh, just over 15 years now.

Uh, I started right out of university, so it's kinda the only career that I know.

Um, and about three or four years ago, I released a book that, uh, is called Pitching Sales: The Complete Guide to Becoming a Sales Professional.

Uh, and the reason for that is, is that, you know, through my experience and people within my network and talking and having conversations, uh, I really found that no matter what cloth you were cut from getting into this profession, that there was a lot of overlapping difficulties and struggles that people faced and overcame to get to where they are today.

But, uh, you know, the conversations end up going to, like, what did you wish you knew back when you started, when you were getting into this profession, when you were getting out of university, that would've helped you get to where you are faster, or overcome some hurdles that you maybe thought you were facing alone.

Sure.

So why do you think mentorship matters so much in sales and personal growth, basically?

Yeah, it matters a lot in sales because sales is hard.

And when you do hear this, no, and you do hear this rejection and you start looking up and you see other people making sales and you're not, and you start trying to maybe act like the person beside you that made a sale.

And then you see someone to your left, make a sale and you act like that person.

Then you see someone to your right, make a sale.

So you start acting like, and you get rejected.

All in your own head about what's going wrong.

lot of people in their 20s they feel pressure to instantly find their passion right or have everything figured out so what advice would you give to them about life and businesses generally

How have those experiences shaped your own journey?

Yeah, I think it's a really important thing to learn about yourself and how you face these things, because the short answer to what you mentioned there is, yes, it is hard.

It's harder than you probably think it is.

And if you already come into it thinking, well, I'm not the person that can do this or I don't have the personality type to be in sales.

You probably do because I'm a firm believer that anybody can be in sales as long as they take care of the mental side of it and have belief in their self and don't get discouraged when they hear no.

And, you know, because I, the biggest thing I always say is, you don't have to be somebody you can't be somebody else in sales, you have to be true to yourself.

Because it doesn't matter if you're an introvert, extrovert, shy.

So looking back at your journey, what lesson have heard the greatest impact in your personal and professional