How did you then, how did your interest pivot over to Ukraine? How did you get into working in Ukraine?

Well, my interest in Ukraine goes back to the first time I was there was in 2002.

I was always curious around what's around the next bend in the road.

And I went across the Kyrgyz Strait on a ferry in, I don't know, 2006, I believe.

Since then, the Russians have built this bridge across.

So I was always really interested in Ukraine.

But what happened was in 2014, after the games were over, FSB came to me and they asked my opinion about what was going on.

So Bruce, what is your five-year prediction for the economic convergence of Moldova and Ukraine with the rest of the European Union?