because it feels kind of woo, you know?

Yeah, it can be very woo.

And I think because, you know, how I came at this work was very logical and pragmatic.

And after they hear kind of my story of... how that all came to be and my background in the built environment, I think that it opens the door for them to legitimacy.

And then we have a lot of data, a lot of empirical evidence, a lot of case studies and stories and friends telling them, you know, about their experience.

So it's not really from me.

It doesn't have to be about, you know, what I'm saying.

And even long after the project is done and the dust is settled, there's an aliveness and awareness in their hearts about what's around them and what they get to maintain relationship with.