And even if it takes a little bit longer to really take hold at, at a more widespread level, we're, we have that conviction, and we're gonna stick with it." Can you talk about some of the indicators you look at or early warning signs and signals that tell you what we're doing, maybe it's gonna take a bit more time, but it is gaining the traction and playing out at the way that we wanted it to?

Yeah.

I think there's an interesting contrast between persistence and patience, and then also virality and speed.

And an example I can give that speaks to the baggy jean trend was also about a new technology platform we were exploring early on in 2019.

In 2019, our team started experimenting on TikTok, and originally TikTok was seen as a dance app, and a lot of people dismissed it early on, not believing that it would end up being a social commerce platform, which it is today.

And PacSun very early on believed in the platform because our consumers were showing us that they enjoyed spending time there.

And so we amassed from 2020 to 2022, in the first, you know, 16, 18 months, we amassed 2 million followers, not because we thought it would replace traditional social media, but because we believed there was something more there.

Now that we've talked a bit around the channels, I'd love to pivot to the brands and how you've thought about balancing your assortment between your own brands and third-party brands, and when you think about jointly growing your business with some of the other top brands out there, how you've approached that and thought about striking the right balance.

Like, what do you th- why do you think these brands have been able to live on? I- is it one part nostalgia and then, you know, leaders such as yourself identifying that, but also raising the game for what the company's doing?

I think nostalgia plays a very small role.

If you look at the research, there certainly is for Gen Z in particular a look back at nostalgia, but at the same time, the amount of brands that are exceeding expectations and able to connect, on nostalgia alone you can't do it.

I think the common thread for Gap, Abercrombie, and PacSun today is really putting a community first lens on it and being very thoughtful about how we're connecting Gap in particular with music.

They're doing a great job in connecting with music and culture.

They had a fantastic activation at Coachella.

I think the work that Fran has done at Abercrombie, she has been very thoughtful About really listening to consumers and getting that feedback circle and at PacSun, the real power of co-creation and no longer building product for a consumer, but actually bringing the consumer into how we create our operating structure.

How, how do you get the team to buy in the vision or buy into the vision that you are conveying when, when times are tough?

How do you do that? How did you manage that? And how do you think it's been successful?

So I've been in the CEO role just over three years now, and I've been with the brand 18 plus years.

And so the turnaround, I would say, was absolutely a team effort.

And as you'll see in the book, co-created the fingerprints and the stories of so many different people, brands, creators, and leaders within our organization and our brand associates are a part of this beautiful story of co-creation.

But the real honest truth is you have to do the inside work first.

And we had to do a lot of rescrubbing of our structure, our internal organization, our operating system, how quickly we were getting product to market, the silos that had existed in our organization for a long time.

And we did that by leading with purpose.

What are some of the surprising takeaways when you read that report each year? What are some of the things that stand out that surprised you even though you've been in this business?