You know, from a very practical real world kind of point of view, how confident are you in our ability to place so much responsibility on the shared governance And even if you have qualms about it, would you think with us a little bit about what you're seeing as an active member of the faculty at one of the nation's and world's leading institutions, where we might work to improve things so that shared governance can play the role that you envision for it?

I think I'm very lucky and my sort of privileged position that I'm in might lead to some of the, I hope not Pollyanna-ish, but the optimism of the book in terms of shared governance.

I think the University of California, not that it's, there's no perfect institution, but it has retained a really, what I see as a really admirable commitment to shared governance and sees that as a central component and guardian of academic freedom.

And, you know, so I, I, I come from that position where I've seen just in the last couple years some worrisome moves by our regents, for example, in terms of diversity, in terms of institutional statements, particularly department statements, their ability to speak.

In each of those cases, and I would add faculty expression protections, especially in terms of extracurricular speech.

And in each of those cases, there has been pushback from the faculty, from the academic senate.

And there has been what I think is just a really helpful sharing of perspectives where For example, on department speech, the regents, having proposed a policy of their own, withdrew it and instead largely followed the Senate's advice on how best to proceed there.

And there's a lot of threat and and concern uh a lot of things about which to be concerned in our world from your point of view from your vantage we've established you know you have a kind of basic core optimism in this book which i greatly appreciate but are there some dimensions of of what you're seeing and experiencing that keeps you up at night as well