How did that happen? How did that grow like it did?

Sure.

Yeah.

So i- the, most of it was through friendships, you know? Um, John Benson, who is, what, if you look on the stage, um, he's what I consider my left guitar, I'm right guitar.

So, so him and I, we've been playing for, for many, many years.

And then Michael Whitman, who runs sound, and he'll sing as well, him and I are actually related.

Um, I married his sister, [laughs] so we've done music since we were in high school together.

... or pop?