So it sounds like you ran into some nepotism a couple times there, which is always pretty interesting to watch inside organizations, huh?

Yeah.

Well, and the other thing, too, it takes, I mean, I really honestly didn't figure out what I was good at and what I enjoyed until about 10 or 12 years ago.

So I then, I had other jobs, I had other businesses, I knew things I was good at, but I didn't know how to work well in an established company, and I didn't know how to build an established company.

So I went and You know, I had had a little bit of a success on my own, and then I built up my own agency and I merged it with what then was Charter One Bank.

And because the banks were buying and wanting all the health insurance agencies back then.

So I thought I was being smart.

Yeah.