I don't know, though, from your standpoint, I'd like to hear what exactly is going to be the reason why those businesses will become viable and profitable down the line when there is a lot of competition, even between your firms with regard to the similar types of strategies out there.

Yeah, well, I mean, I think you said the right word, innovation.

So we have this ETF technology, which is a new delivery mechanism for investors to trade throughout the day.

It's transparent.

You have some tax efficiency that's aligned with it.

So the wrapper makes a lot of sense for investors to get exposure to.

I think of it as like making the leap from CDs to streaming music.

How have you guys tried to figure that out?

What exactly is Goldman Sachs Asset Management looking for when it comes to ETFs?

Yeah, no, you nailed it, Don.

When we think about Goldman Sachs asset management, we are trying to deliver solutions to investors.

And when we do that, we're seeing that they want the ETF wrapper and they're looking for something differentiated in the ETF wrapper.

Innovator, obviously the leader, they invented the defined outcome space.

Nios has obviously come onto the scene in an incredible way, a very client first culture with an incredible range of income products that fits perfectly next to the innovator branch.

What exactly is the purpose of this particular vehicle and how does it fit into your overall scheme?

Yeah, so people want to know the companies that they own, and obviously you recognize a bunch of the names in the QQQ, but investors also really want income.

Before we get to that, can you give everyone a little bit of background on yourself and maybe a little bit about Goldman Sachs Asset Management?

Yeah, my pleasure.

So again, Jeremy, thanks for having me.

It's fun to be here.

I've had the good fortune of being in the asset management industry for the majority of my career, going on, I guess, two and a half decades at this point, have been across all different parts of the business.

Obviously, the ETF space over the last two decades has been incredibly fast growing and is one of the biggest kind of trends as far as how investors are starting to think about their portfolios and what tools they're using to get that exposure.

And so it's really exciting to be a part of that.

So