Hmm.

And then you've got, then you've got agency.

Like who, how many different beings can do stuff, you know? [laughs] Um, and so where ethics disappears is when you conf- you, you conflate all those things into one.

And so you think, "Oh, if we've got one substance, one consciousness, that therefore means that we've only got one will and one agency." And so therefore, if we say everything is Shiva, that means that every single thing that happens is Shiva doing it directly.

So Shiva's making newborn babies, Shiva's building concentration camps.

You know, Shiva's doing, you know, all, all kind, everything right across the moral spectrum.

And that's where it breaks down.

And you're saying that those are the two different, uh, Venn diagrams [chuckles] or whatever, right?

You're allowing a duality to, uh, uh, influence your progression towards that objective.

Exactly right.

And, look, I, I don't wanna be unfair to Somananda, who's more sophisticated than I...

You know, I'm sort of sketching.

Um, I, I think Abhinavagupta is a...

You know, he wrote a lot more, and, you know, he's got this gigantic [chuckles] Tantrāloka, and Mark Dyczkowski published a sort of 11-volume, um, translation of that.

Um, but I think, um, Somananda had a kind of view that there's no difference really.

Hmm