And we had the fortune of working with a lot of startups and a couple of really big companies, and so we got paid to, to learn and to have a lot of fun.

Honestly, a large part of it was learning from other founders, and I think, and we got to kind of experience that alongside a lot of those founders that we were building with.

I worked on Control LA with Ishmael for about a year.

After that, I went to start an email company called Polymail.

[instrumental music] So we started Polymail around twenty fifteen.

Email naturally is a very large market, billions of people.

Almost everybody in the world uses email.

That shows value.