And you're in a very serious engineering firm What does that background mean for you as a marketer? What do you see being inside of the profession and being a professional engineer that helps you be a better voice for the brand?

I think a lot of it comes from a lot of the work that SMPS has done and the concept of the seller-doer.

People want to know the people they're going to be working with.

They want to know people that can answer the questions and not just talk to them about a project or try and sell them on something, but also be able to bring that connection to that technical background.

And so...

I think that I kind of got into this at just the right time when that was really becoming more recognized, more prominent.

And that everybody's, it's like anything else, everybody's time is compressing, right? You have less and less time to get in front of somebody.

And I'm wondering, how is Wallace overall trying to win the talent contest and retain talent.