Would you say that this film has come out or come around at the right time for you, given who you are as a filmmaker now, but also given the world that this film is being released into? Like, how different do you think this film looks and feels and has received 5, 10, 15 years ago compared to now?

Yeah, well, I mean...

I'm not necessarily ever trying to look for the right time to put, it's more about what I want to happen from the film and what, you know, what I wanted to cause people to do.

So, yeah, I think, I don't know, five, you know, Sorry to Bother You came out eight years ago.

And, you know, from that, we saw people, dozens of people hit me saying, hey, you know, we used it to to show to people and got them to vote to strike at our job.

We got it.

We used it.

and

What's it like working in Hollywood and being an avowed communist? How do people react to your politics in that way?

So I don't know.

I've never not engaged in communities where the other people weren't communists.

Right? That's always been the world from high school to jobs that I've had.

Often I'll be the only communist.

So it's very much the same.

And it's also a lot of similar contradictions.

And I thought, wherever you're going, I'm going too.

Can you tell me about putting the Velvet gang together?

Oh, yeah.

Well, you know, what was interesting is, you know, Kiki is known for a more broader comedy that she does.

And meeting with her, I saw, like, so much about her that she was still hilarious, but a lot more nuanced than usually gets shown.

And so I was like, OK, this is what I want to do with that.

And she wanted to go there as well.

So there was that.

We're talking a little bit about wanting audiences to see films in this way and keep seeing them in the theatre.

Where did this way of seeing life and the world come from?

from?Uh, you know, like I, I came up around folks that were organizers, right? That means they weren't ...

It wasn't the idea of radicals that are like, "Oh, I'm the person that, you know, is antisocial." It was the people that were, like, really good at making friends and getting people [laughs] to do stuff, and all those people were also really funny, and it's because they were able to see the ironies in life and exaggerate them for the, for a joke.

And not that my film is exaggerated, but it's the contradictions that are highlighted and exaggerated.

Without spoilers, obviously.

Well, I mean, I, l- let's take it back to a strike.

People might go on strike because the boss is unfairly stealing their wages, right? They're stealing at least parts of their labor value, but that's legal.

And if you go on strike, the police are going to, even though you're being stolen from, come and beat you.

Oh, interesting.

Right? So it, [clears throat] the, the visual stimulation that we're getting is also, uh, I would say also music and sound effects are part of that stimulation, and I'm trying to take people through visceral experiences that, that are, uh, analogous to the emotional experiences folks are going through.

And like I was saying, we're, we're, we're juxtaposing things.

We're exposing contradictions.

And it, I want, if, if I have the camera pushing a character back with things whizzing by us, that's because that's part of the idea.

That's where we're going together, and it leads to these other ideas.

And, and again, like, when I'm writing it, I'm just being honest with myself about how, how I feel these, uh, these personal things connect with these larger things.

Right

would have done this or blah, blah, blah.

But they are so out there in the stratosphere that you just have, even for me as an artist, I just have to just let it happen and watch and be there.

And so I'm really lucky to be working with them.

And so much of film is what you hear, right? It's not just the writing.

It's not just visually what you see, but it's what you hear.

And that is Walter Murch, who's the person that created the term sound designer.

He has a lot of writing about that.

Camilo on the Discord writes for me Lakeith Stanfield stole the show he is incredible what I thought was fascinating was that his enormous presence barely moved the plot forward at all his biggest contribution was opening a door I love that the women remain the heroes of the movie and don't end up needing this dude's help really at all despite palpable presence

So can you give us a little preview of... your childhood and what drew you to to your voice as an artist as an activist etc

and and I wasn't meaning that because I you know if people haven't seen it by now you know whatever it's four four weekends in so I don't mind spoilers but uh perfect I'm just kidding but um Let's see, when I was 12, I wanted to be Prince, but I didn't want to practice as much as it would take to do that.

But I was into music.

I was playing music.

But Prince had saved me from...

Maybe I was having a 12-year-old psychotic episode because I was like... really into comic books and I decided I was going to be a superhero.

I decided I was going to, I was doing gymnastics and martial arts and I was going to heighten my senses and like fight crime.

It's just for our own private collection.

[laughs]

And, and when he, you know, when he sent me the, the script to Get Out when he was like, "Yeah, I wanna play the lead," and so he was like, "I just wanna show you how we're on the same page." Uh, but, uh, the, the, the things are intentional, but everything kind of works a- as you're going.

You're, it's, it's, it's an, it's an improv thing, and all those things are intentional.

So we originally, we, we lost our location for the fashion show, which was this big brutalist thing, and, um, and that was a last minute put together that, that, uh, uh, my production designer, Christopher Glass, came up with.

It's like, "Here's how we can do it," and he drew that and that, that, that, that came, like, last while we were already making the movie, you know? [laughs] Um, so, uh, yeah, and, and, and you know, so I could be like, "Yeah, well, that's why." You know, yeah, we, we, we, we had that in there from the beginning, but that was last.

But, but, uh, uh, you know, I'm always thinking about people I know, and, uh, the, the community that, um, I'm talking to has to do, has a lot to do with, uh, where I was at certain times.

And so I'm talking about a group of Black women and their connection not only to the immediate world around them, but the connection of that world to our larger world.

Mm-hmm

Yes

Especially, you know, in, in the Black community, we'll, we'll be looking for examples of someone who has made it and been successful, and that's because you also are thinking about, I, I would love to have a life where I'm not worried about paying the rent

if that's what you are perceiving them as, that's what the, what it gets compressed to

Black women are, are villainized, and it is not a new thing.

You know, we're in-A world where the, where the whole working class is being exploited and there is a tendency to say it has nothing to do with capitalism, it has something to do with Black folks or people of color.

[upbeat music]

Andy Cohen's got the gold runway.

He can help me on my feet.

M-C-O-S.

So if we have any hesitations on what her thoughts might be on the drama going down in the Bravo verse, she's about to spell it out for us loud and clear with a round of...

Would Keke give a damn round three.

Oh, interesting.

Right? So it [clears throat] the, the visual stimulation that we're getting is also, I would say also music and sound effects are part of that stimulation, and I'm trying to take people through visceral experiences that, that are, ah, analogous to the emotional experiences folks are going through.

And like I was saying, we're, we're, we're juxtaposing things.

We're exposing contradictions, and i- I want if, if I have the camera pushing a character back with things whizzing by us, that's because that's part of the idea.

That's where we're going together, and it leads to these other ideas.

And, and again, like when I'm writing it, I'm just being honest with myself about how, how I feel these, ah, these personal things connect with these larger things.

So, ah, we are, you know, we're, we're talking about here, um, we're talking about the large contradiction of, you know, boosters are, are not outside of capitalism.

How would you describe Christie Smith? She's played by Demi Moore, we should say.

Oh, interesting.

Right? So it, the, the visual stimulation that we're getting is also, I would say also music and sound effects are part of that stimulation, and I'm trying to take people through visceral experiences that, that are, uh, analogous to the emotional experiences folks are going through.

And like I was saying, we're, we're, we're juxtaposing things.

We're exposing contradictions, and i- I want...

If, if I have the camera pushing a character back with things whizzing by us, that's because that's part of the idea.

That's where we're going together, and it leads to these other ideas.

And, and again, like, when I'm writing it, I'm just being honest with myself about how, how I feel these, uh, these personal things connect with these larger things.

Right

Oh, wow.

Because, you know, uh, because I, I, I do think that, uh, you know, she's one of our, our, our...

She's one of the most loved beings on the, on the planet right now, obviously.

Like, KeKe, everybody wants to...

You to see all these things, people.

But, but she, uh, is really, uh, putting herself out there and, um, looking to do good work.

So-

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, you put it like this.

Obviously, we all know that, that money moves the needle.

In, in Italy, they had a, a prime minister.

They have a prime minister that's as right wing or maybe more right wing than Donald Trump, if that's possible, and, um, and she was totally on, is totally on board with Israel and the genocide that they're, uh, committing and the US is committing with them.

But they had a general strike, and they shut down the ports, shut down all this trade, and they forced her to send out the navy to protect the flotilla to Gaza.

Thanks

... that, yeah, like, she do- does some stuff on there that I've never seen her do, right? I saw it in things like Pimp and, uh, a few things.

new plan.

And as the crowd did, started running away.

And at some point.

They turned back.

They turned back and they separated Rossi Hawkins and her kids from the police.

And by the end of the night, the police car or cars were turned over and the police ran out on foot without their weapons.

So people are telling us about this excitedly, as happens if like 50 people are telling you a story, there's going to be differences and all that sort of stuff.

So tell me about that, about comedy and how you like to use it.

And he's making the argument again in his latest film, I Love Boosters, which was first a love song he wrote 20 years ago about shoplifters, or boosters as they're called.

[singing] A booster is a person who jacks from the retail and sells it in the hood for dirt cheap resale.

In these hard times, they press on like glue nails.

In all of my experience, their sex has been female.

Back in elementary, my shoes used to rap.

Every time my soles hit the street, they would flap.

Then in high school, Langston Anderson would cap 'cause my jacket didn't have a brand name on the back.

... it's much more, it's using metaphor, but it's telling you.

[cheering]

One, one, one that uses the withholding of labor as a, as a tactic and strategy to be able to have policy change.

We have a world in which, uh, you have the US and Israel saying, "How dare you say that we're committing genocide," and they are.

While then the next day saying, "[beep] that.

We're about to commit genocide on some mother[beep] tomorrow," right? And they can do that and just play in our face because they know we feel powerless, and that feeling of powerlessness is a material one.

It's real.

Until we have that kind of movement where we can shut down profit, where we can, uh, do the, the things that we, uh, that, that, that, that affect power, then we're gonna be powerless.

[laughs]

Yeah.

It's funny because online there's this whole debate about where that term came from.

There's people in New York saying, "We came up with the term." There's people in, obviously in the Bay Area saying, "We came up with the term." And there's people in Chicago saying, "No, no, boosters, we did that," and such and such.

So there's this whole debate and, um, you know, obviously I came, come from the Bay Area, so I'm gonna, you know, uh, shoot shots on, on, on that behalf.

However, uh, yeah, I think it was all over.

So, um, and definitely people had different ways of calling it.

But, you know, I, I have no idea w- where it came from.

Why was rapping the thing you wanted to invest in to get better at?

You have a 2006 song on Build a Bigger Weapon that's called I Love Boosters.

Yeah, on Pick a Bigger Weapon, I have this song that basically comes from a lifetime of experience of trying to get the hook up.

And meaning, it also comes from the fact that we get advertised all of these things that look amazing or we're told look amazing, or that we're told we need, we're told that it's gonna make us happy or whatever.

But they cost way more than we can afford.

And so there becomes this underground economy, which is how people get some of the means to express themselves, which is fashion is one way.

But I wanted to, And at the time when I made it, and it's still even now, maybe it's been an uptick in it, people involved in that underground economy are really being villainized, right? Obviously, what they're doing is technically illegal, but there's a different thing that happens when people are being villainized, which is to say, this is the bane of humanity and this is what's wrong with the world.

And it's used as a misdirect for what actually is wrong.

What kind of communication was going on about this, or did they just... hand you a score and be like, what do you think?

like, I mean this very sincerely, some of the greatest story songs in hip-hop history, Me and Jesus the Pimp and Fat Cat's Bigger Fish and some of the truly the best narratives ever put on a hip-hop record.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And, you know, I can say thank you not because I think it's genius, but I just put a lot of work into those.

I'm like...

Me and Jesus the Pimp in the 79 Granada last night probably took me eight months to write.

So I don't think of it as like, oh, I'm just really good.

You are there to find out what someone needs and try and figure out how to get it to them.