In what ways did you see him evolve things with the Cowboys that were maybe different, uh, a little bit changes from what he did previously with Green Bay?

I think in Green Bay, especially like towards the later years, it was a lot of spread out formations.

It was a lot of, you know, two-by-two, three-by-one, like four open, meaning like four receivers or like four players detached from the, from the formation.

You could have a tight end or two mixed in there depending on personnel.

But um, and a lot of just isolation routes.

Um, that's something that the Cowboys offense was kind of, you know, I use the word accused of, you know, I m- we think negatively, but you know, I...

The, the Cowboys offense used a lot of that as well.

Um, as you dig deeper in, in some of these books where you detail a lot of the concepts, what are some of the favorite concepts between Aaron Rodgers and Mike McCarthy that they had success on, you know, throughout years and, and even Mike McCarthy taking those concepts and using them in Dallas previously and what you think they might continue to do here in Pittsburgh?

So let's start with, uh, sort of the base outside zone strong concepts here, uh, and, and just where you wanted to go with what we're looking at on the screen here right now.

Yeah.

So, um, like a lot of NFL coaches, you know, I think the starting point for- You know, quality play calling and play design in the NFL.

I think we kind of start with Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVay.

Yeah.

They've kind of been the standard bearers for probably the last five to 10 years and, um, you know, outside zone has been, you know, outside zone, wide zone, whatever you want to call it, has been at the, the center of what they do, you know, kind of the core of their offense, you know, the entire time and it's no different for Ben Johnson.

Um, and the w- the unique thing about Ben Johnson is like Sean McVay for years, especially his early tenure with the Rams, it was outside zone weak, so we're running away from a tight end, and that was just kind of like the starting point for, for their run game.

Yeah.

Like, what's, what's the sequence of what he's reading here?

So I think you hit the nail on the head.

So if we get a typical cov- Say, say defense presents single high, right? So we're getting a typical cover three defense, right? That middle of the field safety's gonna pedal because he has the deep third, right? So he's gonna backpedal, he's gonna stay deeper than the deepest, right? That's a coaching point all the way down to high school football that we say for, for a middle safety and a cover three defense, right? So if that's the case, I know this diagram shows pistol, which I think they only called this version, like, once or twice, but most of this, you know, the early install versions are it's an under center seven step concept with a quick hitch, right? So the quarterback's gonna play fake, seven with a quick hitch.

So they're- he's throwing either the post or the dig on that timing, and then he's gonna reset to the check downs.

So set, you know, quick play action.

Seven steps allows him to really see the coverage kinda, kinda play out and, and that's another theory that, you know, kind of a sidebar.

Um, one of my theories about how and, how and why Caleb was able to develop as the year went on, they started to lean into more of these deeper developing concepts.

Yeah, Matt Harmon.

Yeah.

You need safety help over the top.

You gotta find ways to, you know, cap that speed.

The Vikings see a ton of two high, cover two, because they have Justin Jefferson.

Um, so when you're seeing two high coverages, your run game's a little bit different than single high.

You know, the different types of outsides, even just within the outside zone family of runs, there's, you know, different versions that, that you need to get to to kinda cr- create explosives.

And I think what Miami was, was, was really good at is regardless of the front, regardless of the coverage structure, they were able to design explosive runs.

[laughs]

So the best offenses in the NFL are either the ones using these bunch formations the most, Bobby, or using these bunch formations more effectively than any other teams in the league.

league.Yeah, and, and something, one thing I did wanna talk about was e- it's kind of like a, a twist to the bunch thing.

So something recently in the NFL, the last year or two especially, and the Vikings are probably the b- the best example of this last year, is their use of what I call cluster formations.

So a cluster is...

And it probably gets, like, in these stats that you're pulling, they're probably, they probably get fit into this category too.

So, um, the category of bunch, that is.

So a cluster, how I define a cluster is it's a loose bunch.

Like, what were your favorite auxiliary runs in the NFL last year, and w- who were the teams that deployed them the best?