I got in

the car.

I knew I had an appointment with, you know, someone in charge because we had not had a proper president.

And I thought they were going to present me my options.

So I went in and the head of the legal department was sitting there with the person I was going to see.

And then she said, sit down.

I sat down and she said, we're canceling your work contract, just like that.

Okay.

You were 59.

And, and all of-- You know, my kids were out of the house.

I had had foreign exchange students.

They were gone.

So here I was, like with nothing except my thoughts.

And honestly, the first two days I was, I, you know, I, I just couldn't believe it.

I was in shock, but I'm not-- I didn't stay in bed.

[upbeat jazz music]

So once somebody finds that foundation they love, particularly because finding a shade to match is challenging still today, oddly enough, How do you feel about developing shades and formulas? Do you feel that emotional crossover when women find something in their concealer, however they choose to do their foundation or concealer, that there is the most emotional crossover in that product specifically?

Well, if you find a product that evens out your skin and it's the right color and it's the right texture for your skin, It's incredible.

But you know what? You shouldn't just have one.

Because first of all, as seasons change, so does your skin.

Or you might need to use a better moisturizer, a richer moisturizer in the winter with it.

Or you might need a different formula.

So it's not all cookie cutter.

gripe, complaint, let's call it, that you heard back in that makeup chair, backstage, at all the big shows you used to do, that you may still hear women today?

How did you come up with it and why do you think it's been so successful?

Well, you know, I'm not going to lie and tell everyone what a genius I am.

But you are, Bobby.

I see possibilities.

So I had asked the lab to create this product.

It was more of a foundation, you know, with a little bit... creamier feel to it.

However, they misunderstood the brief and they sent back this pot of like, you know, it looked like, it looked like Vaseline.

And, like, how did that change, like, how the company had to do marketing, had to do everything?

What even gave you the idea or the need to create lipsticks? Like there were plenty of lipsticks on the market.

Well, because I'm a makeup artist and because my style of makeup was different than the norm, it was different than what was in the magazines and different than what was at the store for sure.

I used to really struggle as a makeup artist that I couldn't buy and get traditional makeup to look good on people's faces.

The colors were wrong.

The textures were wrong.

I thought they smelled bad.

Everything just looked like makeup.

And how have you found social media in launching this business and in running this business versus never having it for the first 25 years?

Mm-hmm

... one of the few or many breakups me and the first guy had.

And I, I...

And as soon as I met my husband, the original guy said, "No, I change my mind.

I wanna get married.

I want everything you want." And I really, like, knowing my husband, a week, you know, to a month, I made the decision to be with my husband and not go back to the-

Mm-hmm.

And so, um, you know, I had done a couple podcasts.

And did you feel like you just had to do it? Like, it, you just couldn't contain the energy that was inside of you?

I...

It was not an option of doing it or non, or not doing it.

When I, when I started to make these products, I just thought, "These are so simple, and they're so much better.

People are gonna love these." I thought I would maybe start the company on Etsy.

Just put, like, the best brown eyeshadow and start there.

And, and then I realized, okay, there's a different way to do this.

Thank you.

Mm-hmm.

"I'm really sorry, but we're launching this today, and it's so amazing.

And, uh, come back in a month, 'cause wait till you see what we have next month." Like, we, this has been a, not on purpose, but every month for the next three months, I think it was four months in a row, we had major A-list launches.

And it was like, what were we thinking, guys? Like, my poor team is trying to run to get all the assets and do everything, you know, that they need to do.

There's so much, as you know, that happens, you know, behind the scenes, from the website to the ads to, you know, the marketing.

But, um, yeah, no. W- honestly, it's, we, we have these meetings twice a year, and they're my favorite meetings, and where you look at what the categories are doing, what is actually moving the needle selling, what's not, and it's, you know, it's interesting.

Every once in a while you're like, "All right.

Mm-hmm.

Ran the business.

He ran the business, but he wanted to leave as soon as we found someone.

And I went up there.

I thought they were gonna hand me all these beautiful, you know, resumes, and basically, "Sit down."And I said, "What's going on here?" And she said, "We are canceling your work contract." And I said, "You're firing me." She said, "No, we're not firing you.

We have a new offer for you." And she handed it to me, and I said, "I'm not opening it." She goes, "You have to." I said, "No, I don't.

You're firing me." And I walked out.

When I walked into that elevator and pressed the button, it was the 42nd floor.

Oh, wow, this is a family business.

Did you seek that out? Like, did you know that that was going to be your thing? I feel like today people feel like they, what is my brand? What am I known for? Or did this sort of become a happenstance?

Well, I'm a decade, if not more, before Daniel and probably two decades.

And, you know, the style was so over the top when I was a young makeup artist.

And I tried to do it, but I truly thought people looked bad.

Either I wasn't sure if I was not talented enough to do it.

You know, Kevin Aucoin was painting faces or beating faces, basically.

And I just couldn't do it where it looked good.

bestow it on you.

get

it.

I don't get it.

No, I mean, look, I don't get it either.

And, you know, I was, things were changing both in the industry and where I was working.

And honestly, I could go back now and tell you exactly what happened because most of my quote unquote posse, they don't work there anymore either.

And so, you know, we didn't talk for a while, but everyone is kind of back together, you know, friends again.

By the third

it.

I don't get it.

No, I mean, look, I don't get it either.

And, you know, I was, things were changing both in the industry and where I was working.

And honestly, I could go back now and tell you exactly what happened because most of my quote-unquote posse, they don't work there anymore either.

And so, you know, we didn't talk for a while, but everyone is kind of back together, you know, friends again.

And you hear all these different sides of what was happening.

By the third

Mm-hmm.

... one of the few or many breakups that me and the first guy had.

And I, I...

And as soon as I met my husband, the original guy said, "No, I changed my mind.

I wanna get married.

I want everything you want." And I really...

Like, knowing my husband a week, you know, to a month, I made the decision to be with my husband and not go back-

Mm-hmm.

I want to know from this life coach what some of the biggest reframes or some of the pieces of advice that he gave you about reframing when you feel like you've completely lost control.

Well, first of all, a lot of the things that he had me do were very tactile.

Like, for example, you know, he's like, how are you doing? And I'd be talking about it and I'd say, you know, my house is driving me crazy because it was the first time I was really home in 20 something years.

My car.

The couch was like beat up, the stuffing was coming out.

I had piles in a room.

He said, all right, let's walk around the house and take a picture of everything that bothers you.

i'm the weekend cashier i'm in charge now hey okay let's get back to the book still bobby yeah let's talk about what you think of your book i heard that you actually shed a tear when you were reading your book

Tell us about that.

I mean, it definitely wasn't like the first couple years in New York.

It took a few years of getting a little bit known and, you know, being hired for magazines.

But I got the opportunity to work with Bruce because his regular makeup artist, a woman named Bonnie Maller, got a different or a better job.

So I was a wreck.

I mean, I was just a nervous wreck.

I think I tried on like 300 pairs of jeans to see which ones would be the cool jeans.

So what was your North Star when you created this new line and how did your goals and your mission change from when you started out with Bobbi Brown? I mean, obviously you're in a very different situation and position, but in terms of the product itself.

I want to know from this life coach what some of the biggest reframes or some of the pieces of advice that he gave you about reframing when you feel like you've completely lost control.

Well, first of all, a lot of the things that he had me do were very tactile.

Like, for example, you know, he's like, how are you doing? And I'd be talking about it and I'd say, you know, my house is driving me crazy.

Because it was the first time I was really home in 20 something years.

My couch was like beat up, the stuffing was coming out, I had piles in a room.

He said, all right, let's walk around the house and take a picture of everything that bothers you.

I did.

always been the less is more

I want to know from this life coach what some of the biggest reframes or some of the pieces of advice that he gave you about reframing when you feel like you've completely lost control.

Well, first of all, a lot of the things that he had me do were very tactile.

Like, for example, you know, he's like, how are you doing? And I'd be talking about it and I'd say, you know, my house is driving me crazy because it was the first time I was really home in 20 something years.

My car.

The couch was like beat up, the stuffing was coming out.

I had piles in a room.

He said, all right, let's walk around the house and take a picture of everything that bothers you.

use your name when talking about you, right? There's no lawsuits? No, no, no, no, no.

Walk me through.

Right.

So I was a makeup artist, you know, um, and had a really great life getting hired by all the magazines, fashion shows, and met my husband, got pregnant, and said, "I don't wanna do the traveling anymore." So I still took jobs around New York, and I did this one job where it took me to a pharmacy in New York, and I met the chemist behind the counter, and I talk to everybody.

And I started asking about these lipsticks.

He said, "Oh, I made them." I said, "Wow, they're really nice." I said, "But I've always wanted to make a lipstick that didn't smell, wasn't greasy, wasn't dry, and looked like the color I wish my lips were." He said, "I can make it for you." So we started working together and he made it, and I said, "Oh my God, people would love this.

I could probably sell this." And then I realized not everyone likes the same brown color I like, and everyone has different color lips.

So I thought and ideated what these 10 lipsticks should be.

"... my person." [laughs]

Why were you unhappy with the traditional lipsticks at that time? And what year is this? Will you just situate us?

This is 1990.

Could've even been '89.

I was pregnant with my first baby, I was living in the suburbs of New Jersey even though I worked in New York, and that was a thing that didn't happen back then.

People just didn't work in the New York fashion and go home to New Jersey, but I did.

And why I didn't like the lipsticks that were out there, most lipsticks were just greasy and smelled bad and bad colors.

You know, as a makeup artist, I was always mixing my own to make them more palatable to what I liked, and I always liked a natural look.

At what point does the question come on the table of, "Are we going to grow this ourselves, or are we gonna sell the company?"

Yeah.

Because we didn't do that in the early products, so you know, now we're d- now it's a five-year old brand, we're doing more of that.

But I do get involved in everything and you sh- you, we have this new launch in January of this incredible skincare things, and trust me, the, the, uh, what it's supposed to smell like was so, such a battle.

Mm-hmm.

And so, um, you know, I had done a couple podcasts.

I don't do a lot of research.

I just usually kinda ask questions and, um, and, and the I Am Me series really just became, like, a place for me to support, like, what I believe in for Jones Road, and luckily, um, our partners in this, in this I Am Me campaign was JP Morgan-

Talk me

through that time.

I am the kind of person, up until the bitter end, I thought if I can only get support around what I want to do, it would change everything.

Like, I believed it then, I believe it now.

And but I didn't because, you know, there were powers that didn't agree with me and wanted to go in a different direction.

I mean, could you imagine when I was there? Would I ever have done a contour palette? Never, because I don't believe in contour.

You know, would I do things to change the color of people's skin or do, you know, full coverage is not a problem.

I think of

Right? And they're ready to throw in the towel and maybe start something new or whatever it might

be.

But you had that non-compete clause.

I couldn't do make-up.

So I did a bunch of other things, you know, some not so successful, some others, you know, yes, successful.

And when I finally got to launch the new makeup brand, you know, I had worked on it secretly because I had a non-compete.

I couldn't talk about it.

makeup now right there has been just a huge boon I suppose everything from social media as well and if somebody wanted to make it in the makeup business now what would you say

Um, again, 22 years is a long time, but why did you sell in the first place?

Well, we sold because, first of all, it was Leonard Lauder who, who made the contact.

And, you know, Lauder was a much smaller corporation back then.

They didn't have all the brands they have now, and it was really a family business.

And it made, it was such a great fit, and my husband and I had partners that we started the company when we got into Bergdorf with, and it was a really not easy relationships.

You know, we did really well together, but it was really personality tough.

And I did not want to continue working with them, and that was a perfect way for us to grow the company.

Talk a little bit about the beauty industry, uh, in a larger sense, uh, over the next five to 10 years as you look at it.

Can you tell me more about them? You write about them quite a bit in the book.

Yeah.

Uh, my parents were 20 and 21 when I was born, and, uh, I don't think they had a clue how to raise kids.

By the time they were 25, they had three kids, and my dad was in law school, became a lawyer, my mom a homemaker.

All I remember from my growing up is I had a perfect idyllic family, and my mother was always there.

She cared about everything.

She helped me with my homework.

I mean, your mom, you write about, quite thoughtfully, that your mom really struggled with mental health issues.

And did you feel like you just had to do it? Like, it, you just couldn't contain the energy that was inside of you?

I, it was not an option of doing it or non- or not doing it.

When I, when I started to make these products, I just thought, "These are so simple, and they're so much better.

People are gonna love these." I thought I would maybe start the company on Etsy, just put like, the best brown eyeshadow and start there.

And, and then I realized, "Okay, there's a different way to do this." So no, I, I could not wait to launch, and I did everything completely different the second time that I did the first time.

But, uh, I didn't look at it as hard.

I looked at it as, "This is so cool." I felt, I felt renewed.

Thank you.