thoughts

that this is, man, this is going to end out great, I never believed that.

But we were at a situation where things were starting to deteriorate in there.

David Koresh was communicating with us less frequently, but he was writing letters and they were becoming more and more violent.

We had the so-called experts from all around the country that were saying, he's ready to initiate this thing on his own.

And the only way that we can do that is to do some type of a tactical intervention, because this thing is ready to explode.

And from everything that he wrote and everything that he said, Now, we didn't deal with him predominantly.

What do you mean by that?

peacefully

from being nice to being forceful to trying to being something in between.

What was it that we could do to get the people to come out or to get David Koresh to surrender.

In the final analysis, everyone that we spoke to, all the so-called experts from around the country and within the FBI, said that David Koresh was getting more violent in his rhetoric and that this was not going to end peacefully unless we did something tactical to try to end this situation, he was going to start taking measures to try to end this thing in a violent confrontation because they believed that his ultimate goal was to get everyone in there to sacrifice themselves for him and to kill as many government officials as he possibly could.

So the ultimate goal recommendation was to at least put tear gas in there to try to force the people out, which tear gas is used every day somewhere in the United States.

I've been a chief of police and head of the highway patrol, and we use tear gas on regular occasions, probably at least monthly, in trying to resolve situations.

So the last situation was that at least tactically We would insert tear gas in there to try to force the people out.

So you would think the moms would say, all right, get these kids out of here, and they come rushing out of the building.

And it seems like there's a lot of varying opinions, so I wanted to get your opinion

on it.

Yeah, I think the problem that the FBI had was that when we were called, we already had four dead ATF agents and 16 wounded, and we had five dead Davidians.

Right.

So we already had a situation where people inside were going to be charged with killing a federal agent.

Right.

We never made a judgment as to who fired the first shot, who was responsible.

peacefully.

The police have confirmed, down at the federal building, that they have disarmed a second device.

It was a great relief that, that I learned it was not actually a bomb.

It was a mock-up of a missile that was used for training by one of the agencies in the building.

Now, we have to, to solve this, and solve it as quickly as possible.

[dramatic music] For me, the pressure was truly overwhelming.

You're talking about a massive crime scene.

I was walking west, roughly a block away from the Murrah Building, and I come upon a couple of agents and a deputy sheriff that are surrounding this, uh, this, uh, metal, uh, piece that's laying there in the street.

He was angry, and who wouldn't be?