So, uh, tell us about the ongoing controversy over the public debt ceiling.

So, you know, on a fairly regular basis, uh, Americans are warned that the federal government may no longer be able to meet its legal obligations unless the debt ceiling is raised.

So the result, uh, would be def- default with, uh, financial chaos to, to follow.

But despite that, uh, warning, the political grid [laughs] is, uh, elusive as it is on most other issues.

Uh, the liberals don't want to accept entitlement spending cuts, and the conservatives don't want to accept any meaningful tax increases.

So I think, uh, our budget problems, uh, need to be addressed, but these recurring battles over the debt ceiling have really not been very constructive.

Uh, one approach is that the debt ceiling can be used to force budget discipline.

So what is later in time, the later in time rule, and how does it explain existing versus authorized debt?