Mm-hmm

... uh, highly motivated to deploy their skills and their expertise to access systems to achieve whatever their nefarious goals and objectives are.

And that may be what we think of as the adversary today, the hacker community, adversarial nation states.

It, it could be national security.

But the realization that that's where the innovation was actually taking place.

And so what we began to do is pull teams out of the National Security Agency, where they had mastered their trade, you know, from an offensive perspective and said, "Okay, what I wanna do is I wanna l- look through that offensive lens to where the defense needs to be four, five years from now, and I wanna leverage your offensive expertise.

I wanna repurpose that offensive expertise to build the defensive countermeasures to the threats that you were involved in creating." And, you know, we, we did that for a number of years at Allegis, pulling teams out of the NSA, relocating them to Silicon Valley.

Like, people got, finally were starting to get it, but there were also meetings where you're like, "Yeah, this is not, this is not gonna happen."