And now as boards are expanding their oversight, can that create some tension with management? And what does a healthy collaborative partnership look like in your experience?

Yeah.

You know, one of the things as we've started to talk about this human capital mandate is initially there can be some hesitation by management as to whether this is really what they want, because it has been their purview and they have run it.

And Frankly, management teams are always worried about boards getting too far involved in the management of the business.

That said, the companies who have chosen to take on this mandate and have gone down this journey have realized the value that more heads are better than one.

We're changing fast.

Some of these issues we've never dealt with before.

So if a committee wanted to take a more strategic approach to human capital management and maybe they're earlier in their journey, where would you suggest they begin? Either one of you.