Could you walk us through the four loops just for a second, just so that we can wrap our heads around it?

Yeah.

So, so Bain created this, you know, this, this framework, let's say about 25 years ago, it's called the closed loop feedback framework or model, right? Interloop is one-to-one, right? You give a response through a survey as a customer, someone in the company calls you.

Okay.

Super helpful.

But again, you know, it's not scalable because it requires a human to, to, to actually make a phone call or send an email.

Outer loop is when you aggregate all the feedback and then you say, okay, here's the biggest sort of opportunity from an experiential perspective.

But from a practical point of view, what's the first meeting or metric or ritual that has to change on a certain day?

So without further ado, Bill, um, tell us how you got into this crazy world of customer experience.

Wow.

Well, first, Fred, that was a very nice and kind and generous introduction, so I do appreciate that.

Um, you know, my journey starts like a long time ago.

I had parents that were entrepreneurs, Greek kid, Greek immigrant parents.

They owned diners.

You worked in a diner.

I mean, you know, other than the data variations, you know, it's pretty much the same practice, right? And, you know, it's fundamentally getting down, understanding what outcomes you're trying to solve for, what are the core values, you know, and then how do you take that and, and, you know, pass that on through the entire journey, right?

Could you please elaborate a bit on that?

Yeah.

Look, I think AI changes CX because it forces us, um, it forces us to admit something that we should have admitted years ago, frankly, right? Most companies don't have, like, an insight problem.

There's data and signals everywhere.

Just, you know, I was saying before, I think, like, I think it really comes down to, and you said this, Greg, like, how are we actioning on all this? Like, what are we doing? So, um, I think companies know a lot, right? They've got surveys, they've got call transcripts, they've got chat logs, product usage, complaint CRM notes, social media comments, operational data, financial data, digital behavior data.

Like, think about all that, right? Like, the issue is, like, there's no shortage of data.

No company's ever said, "I have...

Uh, what are you seeing in the market there?

Mm.

Like they are best friends in the company.

They're working hand in hand.

And when that happens, that is like a big sort of like pivot point I think for organizations.

Yeah.

So there's a couple of things that, uh, I'm seeing happening.

So like over let's just say like a couple of years ago, three years ago, you did start to have some CX leaders, and then I think it was probably like 5%, [laughs] um, of, of CX leaders saying, "Hey, look, we have a governance forum where we're talking, we're giving a readout of what's happening.

Yep.

Right [laughs]

... to use, like, private equity parlance.

Like, these are like real market-moving, platform-enhancing capabilities.

Finally, Greg, really quickly, the one thing also I'll kind of, um, talk about is the data conversation really has fundamentally changed, and it's very practical, like brass tacks now.

So maybe 2025, you had more people talking about data as an asset a little bit more of an abstract way.

I think now the conversation is way more operational.

So like can, can my data actually support decisioning, or personalization, or service, compliance even, risk? That is a fundamental shift.

... you know, based on some of those things that you're, you're seeing and hearing?