Yeah.

I tell my volunteer chaplains to get in touch with your biases.

Because your bias going into a room can change the whole thing that you go in to do, you know.

And when I was doing hospice, I walked into a nursing home to visit one of our patients.

And she was a Caucasian patient, elderly.

She had her niece and nephew from Berkeley, I call it Berserkly, there.

And I felt comfortable because they were there.

I don't know, Betty, I know you have stuff that you would say.

And your family's history with slavery and medical discrimination in the American South.

I was born, uh, in Kentucky a year before the end of World War II.

It was not pretty, and my great-grandparents, who were no longer slaves when I came along, but had been slaves.

In fact, my grandmother on my father's side had been born into slavery, and a lot of her sisters and brothers were.

And my great-grandmother told me some of the stories.

She told me about when Abraham Lincoln was killed.

And then sharecropping was, like, one step from slavery, so you didn't own anything, you didn't have anything.

How do you turn these tough experiences into opportunities for growth among healthcare providers?

And so Betty, I wonder how you ex- can explain for us that mistrust.

Well, it, it happens for, unfortunately, for people of color, especially African Americans, from earliest experience with doctors.

Um, we're dismissed.

Our parents are dismissed, or they're, they're told things that are just not true.

They assume...

Uh, uh, my, my, I'm a great-grandmother, and my gra- daughter was taking her grandchildren to the doctor, and the doctor said, "Oh, well, uh, you know, you have to be careful because they're gonna be obese." Well, I mean, no, [laughs] they're not.

Um, and it, it's, it's, it's, uh, just that what we see, what people see on TV, what they hear, what they read about just gets into people's psyches, and then they begin to judge people by what they don't know, by what they think they know.

Mm.