I'm wondering if you can tell us a little bit about that? 'Cause I remember the, the wave that went through when that happened.

Um, in 2013, because the industry had sort of like lost its way, um, where you didn't see for a long time, for 10 years, say models of color.

I had to use the model industry.

I used that and it was like a tool in my chest, the model.

And it was, when you, when you, I, was a model and you saw, it was normal to be one of girls of color.

But then at some given point, it just disappeared.

'96, after the Black Girls Coalition, when we had the Black Girls Coalition.

Mm-hmm.

We didn't

have many black girls doing editorial.

So you had, when they found Iman, yes.

And little by little, Naomi comes on the scene in the 80s, and she's one of those girls.

But we didn't have a lot of that.

But when Regis Pines came from... from France and he started American Nail, he just had a, he had a real appreciation for blacks, beauty, brown girls.

So he started putting them in the magazine and putting them on the covers and that challenged Condé Nast and Hearst.

Sometimes I get on the tube and I see someone wearing just amazing look.

Really?

But the beat of that, just that beat, I took the beat.

And this is a stage.

And another thing we lost out because our sets weren't there because Joe Euler, who was supposed to, Joe Euler, who's the right hand of Halston, was assigned to create our sets, but he did it in inches.

And it was sent to me, the stage.

So they didn't fit.

So we had nothing.

it was really, really divided in who, what you did with which.