that

can be learned by anybody.

And what I say about that is that, like, I just don't get tired of wanting to learn more and doing more of it where other people, their interests might waver and they have other interests.

So that's where I feel like it's different.

But where the art and healing have intersected a couple places, I realized in teaching my classes that are not set up to be healing classes, just art experiences where people are learning how to paint a pumpkin or learning how to paint flowers.

whatever the subject is that I'm offering.

And it just seems to change people.

What does the pen or the marker or the paintbrush feel like in my hand? What are the colors? And so it really can be like an embodiment.

Could you expand on why that's important to you personally?

Well, I would say I've always heard and read about the science behind art being healing.

and I've believed it because I believe science, but I don't know if I ever had a real tangible experience as it being healing.

It's always been very enjoyable to me.

Um, but I had a very tangible experience, uh, a year and a half ago, I had a severe flare from lupus where I was in horrible pain.

Um, constantly.

And I had classes on the books that I was teaching and I didn't want to cancel them.

Can you tell us more about what that is and why that's important?