But the question I had written down is, if you were John Henry and you were grading him on a scale from one to 10, taking into account the amount of money that has been handed over to him as well and sort of where the squad is currently, what would that grade be? And do you feel like there is perhaps a disconnect as was alluded to in the athletic between the fan perception and the perception of the board? Because what was alluded to is that they're quite happy with the business.

Yeah, it is so difficult, like you say, I think because it's so hard to judge him now because it might be wildly different in two or three years.

I think the board probably overall are fairly happy with what he's done because it's crazy really because the rhetoric around him has swung so massively from one extreme to the other.

He was being lauded as obviously big moves Hughes last summer.

That was the clip that went around.

But you could understand why because he'd signed a Premier League winning manager who won the league his first attempt.

He'd got two of the three contract extensions done that a lot of fans were concerned about.

I don't know what the direction of travel is.

But he seems genuinely real happy with this Bradley Barcola singing and amid all the negativity that there's been about Liverpool's transfer window, or even just not necessarily the negativity, just the wider chat that there's been I think th- the managers excitement abou- bou- bro- about Bradley Barcola has made me more excited about Bradley Barcola.

Yeah I think now there's, there's risk with signings when, when sagas drag on for as long as this one has.

Obviously it's been a, a sort of a thing, an undercurrent throughout the whole summer.

It almost dilutes the excitement because yo- y- y- you almost sort of know that he's coming and then the frustration is well why is he not here sooner and, and so that you, you almost forget to think about the player himself and what he can bring and I think like you say the o- the one thing that, that Antonio Raiola really conveyed in his, in his press conference yesterday was that he is just really excited to have this really good player and I, and I think um, you know, i- obviously Liverpool know that spending big money on players doesn't always work out straight away.

W- we've seen that from last summer.

Now hopefully some of those signings will still come good and, and I think they could.

I think they've all got the potential to still contribute massively for Liverpool but I think , you know, I've not spoken to a single person who has said that Bradley Barcola isn't a really good signing for Liverpool and yes might, some people might say he's overpriced.

[laughs]

And it's, it's almost seemed to be forgotten that he's almost took an impossible job in replacing Jürgen Klopp and then won the title in his first year, but then a year later he's, he's out of work.

Yeah.

Well, well, I think, a- and I hope, um, that the history will be kind to him.

I think in a way, the fact that he's gone now will actually in the long run probably benefit him and, and enhance his legacy at Liverpool because I think, you know, going into next season, it was so difficult to imagine a world where he turned around, you know, where he sort of turned the ship around and was able to, to reverse the damage done this season.

There was, there was so much apathy, exasperation.

Um, certainly when you go online, th- th- there wasn't hostility on the ground, but online, the, the level of vitriol that he was receiving was something that I've never seen towards a Liverpool manager.

Um, and I think had that continued into next season, had he, you know, even if he'd won his first five games, as he did actually at the start of, of season just gone, but I think even if he'd done that and then he'd lost game number six, I think that the tide would've turned on him very, very quickly.

What do you expect Liverpool to do over the summer, and what will the expectations be for, for Iraola and that squad next season?

... only time can tell

...

I, I wrote a piece last week trying to sort of weigh up, um, the fors and the against of, of him staying.

Um, and I sort of came to the conclusion that, you know, what is maybe the fair decision isn't necessarily the right decision, in the sense that I think you can, whether you agree with this, I'm sure people will say that they don't agree with this, but you can make a, a case that the fair decision is to let him see out the final year of his contract based off the fact that he's a title-winning manager, based off the mitigation, based off the fact that Liverpool are likely to be in the Champions League.

And on paper, if you look at all of those things, you can say, "Well, a fair decision, um, is to let him have that final season." That doesn't necessarily mean that that's the right thing to do.

And, and that is sort of where, where I'm at at the moment, is that, you know, I think I agree with, with what the guys have said.

I- In, in a sense, it's very hard for me to see a world where, you know, i- if, a- as Mark said, if it, he loses, a- at home to a forest or something on the fourth game of the season, or even on, you know, the, the 10th game of the season, having won his previous nine-

True, it's a paradox of sorts, isn't it? Yeah.

Yeah

... with the way that the coefficient is.

Um, so that whole, you know, that maybe changes the way we talk about Champions League qualification a little bit.

But I still think at the moment, in terms of, you know, there's been plenty of sticks to beat the manager with this season, and I think the fact finishing fifth would probably be another one that people would, if he, if he does stay going into next season, would say, "Well, yeah, we only finished sort of in the Champions League places on a technicality." So I think for him, like John said, finishing in the top four would probably be, you know, it wouldn't absolve him of any of the criticism or anything like that, but I just think would, would be a bit more palatable.

Um-

Vert's back in.

Vert's back among the goals.

Um, so Liverpool have that quality.

Yeah, we had that chat.

And it got, it got to the end of January.

They hadn't signed anyone.

Um, and you're like, "Well, right.

So, so f- for the rest of the season, the only possible thing that they can change that's gonna be sort of seismic and, and like you say, give people a bit of a shock to the system is the manager." So, so that has been the case since that January window closed.

Um, and I've seen a lot of, a lot of people say that, like, obviously I think the tide has shifted a little bit.

I think that, you know, it felt like, as it always does after an international break, you know, the home straight is, is now here.

Mm.

[laughs]

...

he decided to, to drop that announcement.

Um, but yeah, I think as much as the, the timing of the announcement has, has maybe taken a few people by surprise, including me, um, I think the, the nature of it, it, it felt inevitable for a little while, I think.

Obviously, there was that big outburst, wasn't there, in, in December when he came out and accused the, the club of throwing him under the bus amid a poor run of form.

He said his relationship had broken down with, with Arne Slot, and at that point it almost felt like the situation was, was irretrievable.

Um, it's credit to him, credit to, to Slot as well that they were able to find a resolution to that, that he's been back in the team.

So I suppose, Beth, the next question is who's gonna replace him?

But it's felt to me as though they play slightly-Less burdened football at times in the Champions League, which is odd to think.

Yeah, a-and I think a-again, maybe that, that comes down to...

Well, first of all, the fact that, you know, what we've said about Liverpool, why Liverpool, why have Tottenham done so much better in the Champions League? Because, you know, it's a com- it's a different style.

It's, it's different.

It's less physicality.

It maybe is sort of less pressure.

Certainly in the early stages, it's less pressure than the Premier League i-in a sense, particularly with this new format, because you think, well, you know, if you lose a game, it's not the end of the world.

See website for details.

But what Florian Wirtz does at that moment, when Salah knocks it back to him, is just actually unstoppable.

Yeah, it, it was a, it was a great goal, and, and again, it sort of adds a dimension there about, um, you know, looking forward to, to watching Ekwatiike play and sort of seeing what he does next.

And I think Wirtz has exactly that same quality now, and like you say, we'll go into this a bit more when we talk about the, the two of them.

But I think as a duo now, they're just so enjoyable to watch, and I think in a season where Liverpool haven't been particularly enjoyable to watch, [chuckles] um, that's maybe being a bit kind, um, they, they have just been j- just so much fun.

Um, and the quality that, that, that Wirtz has, I mean, w- I think we've all seen it in spades from, from the beginning, really.

Obviously, maybe more, more in flashes in those early months, but y- I genuinely haven't been worried about him at all.

You know, I think obviously you, you want more from him in, in his first couple of months i- in the club, but I just thought he did show enough that in the long term, you, you thought he was gonna be all right.

At some point, Mo Salah will start to take at least an, at least a decent proportion of the good chances that he's part of, and that, you know, I think that that's the thing that Newcastle almost struggled to deal with, that he wasn't very good, but you still needed to really think about him.

I'm not saying that's for Thursday, by the way, but they've gotta try and get out of that mentality.

Yeah, I think ...

The manager does an interview with, with BBC Radio Merseyside, um, and I'm paraphrasing here, but he, he basically says something along the lines of what Ian said actually, in, in the sense of when it went two-one, he said anyone who's watched Liverpool will know that, that that wasn't necessarily a- a foregone conclusion that they'd win the game, and you think, "Well, if the manager, the Liverpool manager is not convinced that his team can hold out for 90 seconds after, you know, scoring at a last minute winner," you know, that, that is a worry.

And I am paraphrasing, so, you know, I'd urge people to go and, and watch it and listen back to, to what he said, but I think that is a worry and I think that is ... (sighs) I think it ... that is in the players' heads, I think the fact that they don't defend ... uh, they don't sort of rush out to, to close down or try and be a little bit more proactive for the, for the equalizer is because they sort of, they're dreading a cross coming into the box because they know that they've not been good at crosses and, and that's ...

You know, therefore it's like, "Right, all hands on deck, let's defend this cross that's gonna come in." And it's almost like they're preempting, y- you know, what's gonna happen, they're preempting something going wrong and I think that is the, the mentality of where they're at at the moment is, is it has become a slog this season.

They're very aware that it's become a slog and that bad things are gonna happen to them.

And it's like their almost ...

But we've gotta show some willingness to get there.

What happened at Leeds, and why is Mo Salah so upset about his situation at Liverpool right now?

Yeah, well, it...

I mean, it was pretty extraordinary that, that Liverpool twice surrendered a, an advantage, dropped more points, ended up in a, in the midst of a six-goal thriller, and yet the most interesting storyline came from a player who wasn't even involved.

And, and yeah, Mohamed Salah, af- after the, after the match, a- as we know, he doesn't speak to the, the written media too often.

He, he's a man of, of few words, and quite often when he does speak to the media, it's because he has something that he wants to say.

The last time that he, he spoke to the media wa- was back in November 2024, where- when he ha- was unhappy with his, his contract situation, and he came out and said, infamously now, that he was more out than in.

And ultimately, that served as a prelude to him getting the contract that he, he wanted at Liverpool, extended his stay by another two years.

I'm sorry, Beth, but you know, that's what it is, isn't it?

That's where I do just have sympathy again with both sides really.

Yeah, and I mean touting obviously is a massive problem and, and the club have obviously clamped down on it, and, and rightly so, and it's not just at Liverpool.

It's across, you know, across football, across the, across the Premier League.

Um, so it is a really tough one.

It would be interesting to know how much that has helped to sort of get the numbers on, on how the club feel like that has, um, you know, positively impacted things, if it has at all.

Um, but I think, I mean, just going back to, to Jay's point earlier on about the, the season ticket thing and, and passing season tickets down and, and things and, and the, the loyalty element of that.

Um, you know, I was, I was super lucky.

Yeah.

How and why has it fallen off?

Well, that is the, that is the million-dollar question.

And I think one that, that Arne Slot himself will be, be looking to solve over this international break.

I think ultimately, it's, it's multiple factors really.

I mean, you mentioned the recruitment there.

Uh, and on paper, Liverpool signed a lot of great players, obviously spent a lot of money.

But they are a team now in transition and, and, you know, people might take issue with that and say, "Well, you shouldn't be in transition if you've spent all of this money." But ultimately, they've had to replace sort of four or five starters with four or five new players.

But what about the work rate and if what the boys have been saying about Salah is being echoed in Liverpool, in the media, in the public, in the fans?

Mm-hmm.

Obviously Arne Slot came in.

Nobody really knew what to expect.

They didn't sign anyone bar Federico Chiesa, who only played a, a small part really in, in what Liverpool did last season.

So I think, you know, that enhanced, I guess, the, the whole mood of the season, that they were able to do that so expectedly and, and go on and, and win the league at a canter.

So this season it will be different because there is a target on their backs, particularly when you consider how much they have, have ended up spending in, in the market.

Um, I think they've, they've had a, they've had a good pre-season, to be fair.

Just, just on the, on the defense, I mean, obviously there are lots of the talkers around ISAK and, and, you know, going back in for, for him and, and maybe making another bid to, to Newcastle, but do you think i- if they were to only get one extra player in betw- between now and the deadline, that maybe a center-back is more important than signing another striker? As, as, as fantastic as signing ISAK would, would be for Liverpool.

If that's to be the case, is that the line-up we'll be seeing, do you think, next season from Liverpool?

Yeah, I think so.

I think it was pretty much as close to a, to a strong eleven, the strongest eleven, a- as Arne Slot could field yesterday.

He was out with, without Virgil van Dijk, who was out with illness.

Conor Bradley as well, the defender w- was out with a, an injury.

So both of those players, I think, could, could come in.

Alexis Mac Allister played in the, in the earlier game as well, so you would expect that he'll come back into the side, possibly in time for the Community Shield.

Is there any chance that does happen?

Will there be any feeling among the Liverpool fans that there could be too many new faces in the attack?

Oh, I think that is always, is always the issue.

I think Liverpool last season, there was a lot of talk coming into the season that they hadn't freshened the squad up enough.

And ultimately, they, they only added Federico Chiesa, who played, you know, very few times in the Premier League, and they went on to, to win the title at Acanzus.

So there is something to be said for having a, a settled squad, uh, and there's a chance that perhaps, you know, too many new faces might, you know, it might take a little bit of time to gel.

I think from, from Isak's perspective, it, it's sort of...

He's the sort of player that you, you push the boat out for and you take a risk for.

I wonder how the fans have been reacting to the money that's been spent in the past? There have been complaints that they've not spent enough.

So, how do they move on?

I- it's such a difficult one and I, I, to be honest I don't think we'll fully know how well Liverpool are able to move on u- until the season h- has started.

Um, you know, I wasn't at the, the, the first friendly of the summer against Preston the other week, I was out in, in Switzerland but sort of looking back on, on the footage of that it w- it was quite clear that a lot of the players before the match, uh, uh, and at the end w- were just devastated and, you know, the fans were, were, were singing Jota's song for about 10 minutes at the end of the match and, and the players were just stood, w- you know, looking back at them and obviously really appreciating that support but i- i- it's, it's so difficult and it's such a difficult balance t- to strike.

There's no real sort of handbook for how to deal with something like this, um, a- at this magnitude.

Uh, I will say, uh, you know, I think the club have, have, have dealt with things i- in the best way that they possibly could have done.

I think the way that they've handled e- everything in terms of the, the timing of, of things and sort of giving things a chance to breathe and, and obviously sort of liasing with his family who are obviously the, the most important thing i- in all of this, the most important people, um, h- has been, has been great t- to see.

Uh, but obviously it's, it's a devastating situation, um, and, and first and foremost they've lost a, a great person.

We only need, like, one or two tweaks." I think I- I just feel from the outside, particularly ju- like, speaking to people around sort of Man City and Man United, there r- has been a bit of surprise about just the amount of money that they've been able to spend and the quality of player they've- they've brought in.

No, honestly he's so good a footballer.

Even Slot said after the game, he said like if, if someone was making a highlight reel of, of his performance today, it'd be about five minutes long because there were just so many good passes.

But, but yeah, like Rob said, I, I just sort of think, you know, people...

He's, he's under no illusions about how unpopular his decision is and who knows what his long-term legacy will be.

There'll be people who never forgive him, there'll be people who grudgingly do, there'll be people who accept it.

And whatever camp you're in, that is absolutely fine.

But ultimately, I think, I think the thing with Trent this season and certainly the last couple of weeks is it, it's felt quite, um...

(burps)

In terms of Liverpool's spine, Szoboszlai obviously very involved at Hungary, but in terms of Liverpool's spine, it's no bad thing, I think, rest for Konate and Gravenberch in, in sort of, uh, you know, in contrast to, to, to the attacking options.

Yeah.

I think, I think Gravenberch's the big one, isn't it? I mean, he, he was outstanding for, for two-thirds, uh, of the season and he's just sort of dropped off, as have, you know, a number of players over the past few weeks.

And, you know, I don't think that's necessarily a coincidence that, that when he's not been playing quite as well, Liverpool haven't.

I think, you know, he's been so, so good but you do have to remember he's only what, 22? Um, and this is a massive step up for him in terms of, of the, the responsibility he's being tasked with this season compared to last.

So I think for him, just, you know, obviously hope what he, he had to withdraw with wasn't too serious, but when you hear that he's, he's returning to Liverpool, you, you do sort of think actually that is no bad thing.

And I think for him, just having a, having a little bit of a rest and a reset could be really beneficial.

I think it's only really Newcastle, the whole of the season, where when the pressure's on, they haven't found a way.

What are your takes on everything that's going on?

Yeah, I just think overwhelmingly, like, the- the feeling's just one of sadness really, because it's not a particularly pleasant situation.

I know, obviously, a lot of fans are really upset about it, and I completely understand the reasons behind fans being upset.

I also understand reasons why Trent Alexander-Arnold might want to go to- to Real Madrid, um, you know, and that's hard for some fans, I think, to- to really reconcile with because he is the local hero, isn't he? And he- he's said things in the past that have sort of suggested that- that he has ambitions of captaining the club and- and wanting to- to be a- a bonafide Liverpool legend.

And- and listen, you know, when- when the dust has settled, he might still be viewed as that.

He should certainly, you know, be viewed as someone who's made massive contributions over the past few years.

But, uh, you know, it will taint his legacy if he goes for some people more than others.

We were saying on Tuesday, it's very David Beckham to Real Madrid.