Could you talk about that a bit?

Yeah, this was something that I actually have changed my opinion on.

So I started researching as part of understanding online versus physical communities and things like that.

I actually started digging into remote work back in 2015 15, 16, so a long time, and seeing the potential value, like that there is benefit, like, you know, the fact that we can have this conversation is really amazing.

Like, you didn't have to fly to see me, I didn't have to fly to see you.

So there is absolute value in having dispersed teams and remote collaboration.

That being said, seeing how how far it's been taken, for one thing, and how it has actually eliminated the opportunity to collaborate in person with coworkers and things like that, I am starting to see that it is detrimental to people's health and well-being.

And I was just wondering where you sit and what your kind of thoughts are at, where we are at 2026.

So in that sense, now, if you're inundated and spending most of your time on social media, you're not practicing those things or having those experiences, and I think that's where the practical piece gets in, is our, our perception of what is, um, healthy, joyful, um, satisfying is also skewed when you're not countering those experiences with offline, real life, tactile, physical, limbic-

Well, I'm thinking about your husband being on the phone in the car while you're driving, and what we also know about human connection and presence and e-even attachment theory, right? Around, and, and back to the party, not being seen.

You know, for him to say like, "I'm listening, I'm here," but he isn't fully present, not in the way that you want him to be.

And this is how, um, you know, with technology or, or Brett and I hosted a conversation around music and loneliness, and in a similar vein, thinking about do songs or, or social media really, are they, are you using them as a tool to mirror the feelings that you have? Again, there's no right or wrong in this, because sometimes we do that, "I'm, I feel lonely, I'm gonna listen to so-sad songs about loneliness." Or is it a sur-a surrogate, a stand-in for connection? And how do we start to discern around when am I candy crushing? Why am I candy crushing? What's the connection I'm seeking? And is there a move I need to make in order to move myself a little closer to that, whether it's skill building-

They didn't do much for me, but I'm just saying.

[laughs] Well, for...

We are in this moment of time where we don't know yet, and it's not...

We're...