Benny Gantz

But for many Israelis, they see strategic victory because they set them back.

Even Benny Gantz, who's supposedly on the more progressive or leftist side of the spectrum in Israel, in his campaign video for his bid to become prime minister, I think it was 2017 or 18, it showed footages of the damage he had inflicted on Gaza, because that in and of itself is the victory, is the strategic objective.

I've never seen a single American politician or military official put up pictures of destruction in Afghanistan or in Mosul and point to that as if that is the metric of success.

But here's the huge difference between the American thinking and the Israeli thinking.

The question is, like you said, it's like what kind of unity... is it um the experience from netanyahu unity governments in the past is notoriously not good for the people that agree to join netanyahu in unity whether it be uh yair lapid also you know president bujji herzog who in 2016 thought about it thought about it also was you know he was i think you know he was into into it and then netanyahu kind of used him to go with Lieberman and pass up on a regional opportunity.

You have the latest victim to Netanyahu's unity ploy is unemployed now, Benny Gantz, who, I don't know if he's listening to Israel Policy Pod, but he could tell you that unity with Netanyahu, it doesn't, it doesn't lead you to good places.

So it depends on the terms of unity.

And I think Gadi Aizenkot is different than Benny Gantz in that sense.

And I think he would only go for unity if he saw it as there was a clear way to keep Netanyahu in check.

Also, it's hard for me to see him going for unity with Netanyahu being prime minister first.

Because as someone who was the head of the army radio station and who's a moderate told me, when he came to head the army radio station, which is all left, He slowly and gradually gave right-wingers slots in the programs in his station.

He said the minute there was a government, when Benny Gantz was Minister of Defense and in charge of that, he put someone in there, and within two weeks she kicked, or I don't know, two months, she kicked everyone out.

Because that's the way they do it, these Bolsheviks.

And they will do it here.

Herzog-Hollevy.

What were the personal dynamics among that trio as well as between them and the opposition leaders who then joined the cabinet, which included former IDF chiefs of staff, Benny Gantz and Gotti Eisenkant? How did that influence the course of the war? And was it ever possible for any of the ones not named Netanyahu...

to, you know, with their conflicts, which shifted at times, was that always a mismatch between a master of maneuver in the prime minister and people who were not his equal in that respect? Or was there ever a chance for any of the non-Netanyahu's to get their way?

So there's a few questions, and then I'll try to unpack them separately.

So number one, the Israeli war cabinet was a mess.

You talked about Netanyahu and Yoav Golod, who Netanyahu had already fired once before the war and then unfired him because it was too unpopular.

And you have Benny Gantz, who, you know, Netanyahu had, you know, basically, you know, told him, promised him he would be rotating with him for prime minister and then broken that promise.

And then later, Benny Gantz helps the government come into power, which pushes Netanyahu out of power.

Hay una deriva, una derivada más, que no quiero que nos extendamos mucho más, pero es el, el, el hecho de que también tiene un gobierno en funciones y está a punto de elegir un gobierno nuevo, en principio Israel, que es el otro gran actor que también participó en la guerra de Irán, al que desde Estados Unidos se atribuye la responsabilidad de haber arrastrado a Trump a la guerra.

Con lo cual, claro, si cambia el gobierno de Israel, [chasquido de lengua] ¿cómo va a fun-- va a afectar eso a, a la decisión que tome Trump sobre si entrar o no o mantener la guerra de Irán, eh, esa ofensiva, no? Ahora mismo lo que sabemos es que el presidente de Israel le ha encargado al líder de la oposición, a Benny Gantz, eh, el, el, el derecho, digamos, le ha dado la posibilidad de formar un gobierno de coalición.

El problema es que las coaliciones en Israel son endiabladas y antes comentábamos fuera de micro que lo más probable es que no lo consiga y que haya elecciones otra vez dentro de unos pocos meses.

Y Netanyahu sigue gobernando mientras tanto.

Well, that is true.

Benny Gantz can attest to that happening.

Yes.

The point is that with Netanyahu as head of the Likud, we cannot go into a unity government.

They gambled on guns.

Gantz, Benny Gantz, proved not good enough.

They just cast him aside.

He didn't make it into this parliament.

I'm optimistic.

But there's that potential that... could happen when the Arab parties recommended Benny Gantz for Prime Minister.

He took that recommendation and he went to Prime Minister Netanyahu and handed the government to him.

Netanyahu sucked all the juice from Gantz and threw him out.