And so as we talk about the sort of peak of the career or the lifespan of an opera singer, you often see that a little bit more delayed than perhaps many of the other instruments or many athletes otherwise, because your body has to be mature and all of these muscles take many, many, many years to train before your voice is at its richest and fullest point.

So I actually, I have never been an opera singer.

I can make no claim to being an opera singer.

But I grew up first as a pianist, but I played French horn very seriously for a long time.

And I did a lot of professional choral singing throughout my undergrad.

The mechanism for breath between brass instruments, wind instruments, and singing is nearly identical, right? I think that there's this very common misconception that when you take a really big, deep breath, you're feeling it in your lungs and your chest is pushing out, but there's actually no motor muscles in your chest.

The thing that is happening, as Lena mentioned earlier, is that your diaphragm is descending into your stomach, into your intestinal organs, and creating more space in the chest cavity, in the thoracic cavity.

How is it when you're singing outside like that and the voice is just going out into, you know, space?