So

that was a bit of a pivot.

So it's circumstantial, right? You've got the right people, an interesting problem.

Back then, the insurers could consider building an internal capital.

The company Allianz, I think, is the only one that ended up doing it for a number of reasons.

We could come back to it.

So there was this need at the moment The right people were there with the right reputation, connections.

The other thing that struck me from those descriptions Dealing with lots of stakeholders, not just in the university, but externally, are you dealing with businesses, are you dealing with government or government agencies? So I'm just interested in, from your perspective, are there different mindsets in industry to academia, and how might that compare with the sort of mindsets in government?