Like how can we build trust on a foundation of brokenness and a lack of personal awareness?

Yeah.

Somebody that has really influenced the way that we approach this leadership conversation.

I'll give you part of it.

He's worth having on the podcast.

Tim Spiker, if you don't know that name, wrote a book called The Only Leaders Worth Following.

And him and his partner, Vanessa Kiley, I know both of them are really well, like just awesome people.

So,