So how did you actually end up getting into the insurance space? After I left the

seminary, I went into advertising media.

And so I was happy, but I always enjoyed writing.

I always enjoyed writing, putting my words and thoughts in paper, in writing.

and there came a time where there was an economic downturn and so I was commission based and you know when times are good they say the sky is the limit but when times are bad my gosh your sky is pretty low you know so I was in need of a job I was in need of employment and well I went to a coffee shop a small restaurant to do up my CV and I didn't have much success because nobody wants to employ someone who majored in scholastic philosophy, theology.

And, you know, they were like, what is philosophy? What did you do? Why did you do it? Who made you do this, man? So I was a bit down and out.

I went for interviews and it was all about the focus on my philosophy.

When you got into it, what was the view that you had of it?