There's been a lot of chat about how the All Blacks will handle the set piece, and then what happens after that, Ben, I suppose is, is up to the, the backs who we know they can do their job.

I totally agree.

I think you've seen the ambition from the, the All Blacks trying to go that multi-phase attack.

I think tonight was the perfect...

You know, playing against the Bulls, it, it's almost, you couldn't wish for a better game leading into next week because of the blitz defense and what you saw, and I thought some of the subtleties in play.

If you think about the first try, for instance, New Zealand win it, like, a lineout right at the front, uh, right at the front, which is, is what you want defensively, right? Kitse, you'd be happy with that, mate, defensively.

Give them the front, let them win it there.

Will they take another outside back, or will they look, like Ben said earlier, to, to put another playmaker on the bench? I'm imagining that you might see two outside backs on the bench along with a halfback, and maybe that's where Rico gets his shot.

And, um, you know, he was a, a big part of those, why those Northhamp- that Northampton team won, 'cause he got the team on the front foot and, and just played like a, um you know, his pace off the back of scrums, just being dynamic and bringing that to the game at the same time, not having to do anything ultra special.

He definitely has a huge point of difference in terms of some of the plays he can do.

But I actually think he's had a real mature sort of 12 months.

When you look at it, he sort of burst on the scene last season.

He went on the Lions tour.

The autumn, he was sort of used a little bit as an impact player.

Then you look at Six Nations, he had a bit of a start.

... his, uh, statement, and I will reply.

Yeah.

Far from it.

Like, England massively underperformed, and I think the big thing is, whether you look at it from a rugby point of view, whether you look at it from a football point of view, whatever it may be, team selection has to coincide with team tactics.

And what you saw with England, you saw a, a team that was selected that could play a multi-phase attacking game of rugby, or you could, you know, picture this as a football team that was all out attack, but then being set out to defend the entire time and almost, let's say, park 11 behind the bus and-

Yeah.

No-risk rugby.

That's not the way it's suited for the current crop of players and the talent pool.

By the end, they played high phase, kept the ball, more risk rugby.

And obviously we... um went to seek advice from the specialist and everything and he told me that trev if you still want to play you're gonna have to to clean up that other achilles because it the pain will be there and eventually it's also been a rapture and it's going to take you a good 11 months or so again to heal so it would be um easier or better for us to just surgically cut it open clean it up properly reattach it it's going to take a good uh three four months and you should be good to go so right now it's healing up quite well and actually way much faster than we thought so um i'm back in in the gym now and obviously cycling is still still a bit far but uh we're making good progress so hopefully um by the closer to the end of this season or beginning of the next one, I'll be back on the field and ready to go again.

Good to hear, mate.

Trev, you're already taller if you laid on your side, mate.

With the double Achilles now, have you dropped a bit more height, mate, and got even more? Good one, good one.

You've gone from six foot six wide and five foot eight and five foot seven and six foot seven wide with the double, the double up.

Yeah, Razzy says he doesn't want you to retire.

And obviously, World Cup 27 is very much on the horizon.

Yeah, to be fair, we'll

Exactly.

Exactly.

And I think that's the whole thing, right? There's been huge strides in terms of trying to make the game safe.

You can't lose the identity of what it is.

It's a contact sport.

It's a collision sport.

And you are at risk, right? The benefits, in my opinion, always outweigh the risk of the sport.

Do you think that's a good thing for the game going forward at elite end? Because that will change fundamentally what rugby unions look like if the tackle height is lowered from shoulder to sternum.

Does England need a massive wake-up call where they say, we need to be better?

Do you know what? You make some great points from the outside because there is, there's some unrest.

There's definitely from the grassroots level all the way up to the top, you know, with the CEO and everything that's going on there.

There's definitely a little bit unrest in terms of like the style, the way England play, because I think, you know, to go back a year, which is sad, but, you know, Ireland at home, for instance, you know, England looked like they had, from what a stuttery tournament to actually, okay, they're moving the ball a bit more.

I'm excited to see a bit more of an identity in terms of what they're trying to say.

And I hate the word identity, but there was more ambition to what England were trying to do.

And then I haven't really seen anything since that.

overrated anyway