A hard-fought win in the end, but yeah, put that performance into words for me.

Yeah, man, I was dominating every round.

I got to a point probably where it was too easy, if I'm honest.

I switched off just because he won one round, two rounds at max.

You know, people think it's an amazing performance for him.

But at the end of the day, I won.

Probably two rounds down, in my opinion.

I know you're used to getting criticised, but how do you roll with it now after that?

Yeah,

it's having that confidence that's real, if that makes sense.

It's all good and well, talking, being flashy, hopping on one leg, but sometimes it's not real.

You can see it's real now.

I'm believing in it.

I'm working hard.

I'm cutting no corners.

Do you honestly believe, you say flying colours there, Ben, do you honestly believe Connor Wallace will give you the rounds that Andy Lee would like to see you get?

[laughs]

"I'm fighting today in the final." And I used to think like that.

I was like, "It's, I'm fighting.

It's the biggest fight of my life.

Why does no one care?" But life just goes on, really, and when you get past that, you get so calm in life because it's like, yeah, you're enjoying it.

You enjoy your sport, you love your sport, but it is a sport.

Don't take it too serious, so-

[laughs]

Are we looking at the same kind of Ben Wicker fashion this week?

Yeah, of course.

At the end of the day, Joke Society is a game opponent.

Game.

He's gone over to Australia.

He's got a winning streak over there.

He got his ranking up.

Are you ready for that now? Yeah, well, you know, I'm 29 now, so I'm at

I don't necessarily agree with that, but I'm wondering how you took away any sort of lessons from that, if any, if there was any correlation to what you're experiencing in your career right now from that experience.

I think in all walks of life, you go through trials and tribulations, and that was his.

Maybe I had mine against Cameron, but I've learned from those little things.

And each obstacle you go through, you learn from them.

He was winning every single round, and he looked great.

But these things happen.

That's why we love to fight sport.

Right now? Oh my, what is happening? Are you happy with Eddie? Is there something going on here?

Were you surprised that you didn't get more of an effort out of the opponent?

Not really.

I just think it just shows the level when I'm in there.

Like I said, he fought for a world title, split decision.

He probably should have won that fight, if I'm honest.

But it just shows my pedigree, shows my levels.

It shows the distance between these guys.

We're going Van

[laughs]

Yeah, he was good.

He was good.

Uh, like I said, on paper, he, he lost on a split decision against, uh, Badou Jack for a world title.

He was no idiot.

But I just know, like I said, I just feel like I'm better in every department.

Good performance.

[laughs]

Mm.

And I looked out the ring when I was sparring, and I seen them go...

And put a X.

And I called my dad.

I said, "I'm doing everything wrong.

I'm beating up these kids.

I, I look the best here, but they don't like my style." My dad said, "Just try and...

Yeah.

Is that fair?

Yes and no.

Uh, actually, he really likes it.

It, when I spar, he loves it, but there's a time and a place for it.

That's what I'd say he's good about, Andy.

He's told me there's a time and a place for it.

So my last two fights with Matchroom, they both ended so quick because I saw the opportunity and I took it.

Yeah.

And, and I wonder over the years with, with EduFuturists then, the conversations, what is, what are the most common things that have kind of almost come back round and kinda keep coming up? Over the 10 years, what, what do you think that would be?

Well, I think, uh, I'm smiling because every year at our, we, we do an awards event that we've been doing for years.

It's an annual thing.

The next one we've got coming up very soon, and we write and produce a trends booklet, which is the three or four key things that we've seen across the year in the podcast, in our events.

And interestingly, I was reviewing the last few years as I was writing the stuff for this year, and there's so much crossover in terms of what the themes are, what really matters.

Absolutely the biggest one for me is the concept of a wolf pack, and we've been saying this, and y- we've been saying this as EduFuturists for a little while.

That Rudyard Kipling poem, The, The Law of the Jungle, basically the idea that the strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

I, um, I wondered as well, like just as a kind of closing question, where do you see Edu, EduFuturists, where do you see the books, where do you see all this kind of going in the next few years? And, and then just as a, a really just curious on my part, where's the best place that you've ever visited for a project?

Yeah.

... something like that.

And I went, like I said, I went down there just to have a bit o' discipline, something to do after school.

My mum and dad didn't want me on the Xbox all the time.

So, uh, I did that.

Then the coach said, "We got a fight next week.

If anybody wants to go on there, let me know.

Did it help your ADHD as well?

Um, after, you know, after the fight in October against Liam which, you know, obviously didn't go as planned, did, did you feel a little bit surprised at how many people seemed to sort of like revel at your supposed demise? How many people were relishing you slipping up, so to speak?

It's one of those things, I suppose, when you're doing well, uh, people always wanna see someone, uh, fall to their knees.

And sadly, that's the way of the, that's the way of the world, that's the way of life.

But for me, it was very humbling and I needed it at that moment because like I said, I came up so quick, everything was happening that's never happened before.

I've literally came from a house where my mom worked two jobs, dad worked two jobs.

I had everything at my feet and, um, that little setback made me hungry again.

It made me just realize that the sport is real and if you don't switch on or be focused, it can go like that.

After the Cameron experience has come and gone, are you going to remain the same type of fighter or now with Andy firmly in your corner, are you going to be a little bit more conservative, for lack of a better word?