Yeah, I'm keen to hear, like, what are your thoughts on that? Because obviously, this is, like, reinforcing the gender-based violence that currently exists in the world.

So very recently, there's been a discovery, I think, by CNBC, that, um, there was a particular website, um, that was promoting, uh, a, it was a place where mainly men could come together, share actual real-life footage or tips and tricks on how to sexually assault and rape women.

And there was something like 62 million, uh, visitors.

Um, beneath it was about 1,000, uh, active users of a Telegram g- group sharing different resources on sleep sex, they would call it.

So if we kind of just zoom back out and think about, um, why women would choose the bear over men, a very, very, uh, beautiful friend of mine, um, she's a, a clinic- clinical midwife educator-

And in, in terms of, like, that situation, 'cause I think that's really relatable, 'cause I'm sure some people might be tuning in and being like, "Oh, well, that's so great that you've been able to get through that risky nature." But for those that might be on the edge, they're like, "Oh, I think I might feel unsafe in this," like, what do you advise? Do you just let it go? 'Cause there's a bit of that bystander effect that can happen, right?

Yes.

This is challenging, um, because y- there's a risk that you give people advice that they're not, uh, that they're not able to deliver on, and then that creates shame and embarrassment for them.

How has the manosphere then managed to fill that void?

Well, I mean, look, not everyone's gonna like this, but the manosphere is toxic.

Now, what we say and believe and teach at The Man Cave is that n- not all masculinity is toxic, and the, and the term can be off-putting.

It really does.

It creates a barrier, particularly with young men, when you start talking that kind of language.

What we believe is that, uh, masculinity is actually inherently beautiful.

Strength, courage, provider, protector, they're all beautiful things, but not when they're used in isolation or on their own.

how do we fill that gap?