
Ben Kiernan
Australian historian
2
APPEARANCES
2
PODCASTS
012
DEC 30
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MAY 4
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Oct 19, 2026
The Khmer Rouge & Pol Pot's Reign of Terror
32:38
32:44
32:54
33:06
33:29
34:04
Dan SnowHOST
So did they empty the city? Where are people being sent to? Are they being sent to these collective farms?

Ben KiernanGUEST
Two million people that lived in Phnom Penh were sent in all directions, to the eastern zone, to the southwest zone, to the northern zone, and into what became the western zone.

Ben KiernanGUEST
But then there were two more major relocations of hundreds of thousands of people.

Ben KiernanGUEST
But later in the year, September, October, November, a lot of those people who had been expelled from Phnom Penh were regathered again, rounded up in all those zones that they'd been sent to, and sent to the Northwest Zone, which the Pol Pot regime regarded as the most fertile and underpopulated zone on the Thai border.

Ben KiernanGUEST
And so 800,000 people of those original expellees from the cities were rounded up and sent again, for a second time to the northwest zone and that was causing it was way too many people they were sent after the planting zone but before the harvest so that they were not able to contribute to the productivity of the northwest zone they weren't there in time to plant more rice for themselves they had to then rely on the northwest zones smaller planting season, when it was harvested, it wasn't enough to feed them.

Ben KiernanGUEST
And so there was huge starvation in the northwest zone in 1976 after the harvest came in late in the year 1975.
27 MINS LATER
S
60:56speaker_10ADVERTISER
States of America.
The Khmer Rouge & Pol Pot's Reign of Terror
31:40
31:45
31:56
32:02
32:07
32:30
32:44
58:00
Dan SnowHOST
So did they empty the city? And where, where are people being sent to? Are they being sent to these collective farms?

Ben KiernanGUEST
Two million people that lived in Phnom Penh were sent in all directions to the eastern zone, to the southwest zone, to the northern zone, and into what became the western zone.

Ben KiernanGUEST
But then there were two more major relocations of hundreds of thousands of people.

Ben KiernanGUEST
This was the, the first one of April 1975, immediately on capturing Phnom Penh.

Ben KiernanGUEST
But later in the year, September, October, November, a lot of those people who had been expelled from Phnom Penh were regathered again, rounded up in all those zones that they'd been sent to, and sent to the northwest zone, which w- the Pol Pot regime regarded as the most fertile and underpopulated zone on the Thai border.

Ben KiernanGUEST
And so eight hundred thousand people of those original expellees from the cities were rounded up and sent again for a second time to the northwest zone, and that was causing-- It was way too many people.

Ben KiernanGUEST
They were sent after the planting zone but before the harvest, so that they were not able to contribute to the productivity of the northwest zone.
25 MINS LATER
Dan SnowHOST
Have people gone to prison? Is it more like South Africa, where there's been a mechanism for airing and to a certain extent, sort of a certain amount of restorative justice? What's actually taken place in, in terms of accounting for those monstrous crimes?