the planning part of it the very ground the beginnings of the project because then you can get to shape it and discern its shape

exactly that and it's you know because and we're toying with things and noticing with things and tweaking things and unable to be kind of like quite fluid in that way um but that you know the word witness and and the particular reference to it that graham uh brings our attention to and acts of course that is the same word as the word for martyr and of course we know martyrs now as people who literally give their lives um for you know to tell the truth of jesus to share the gospel literally give their lives and that's it taken to its most literal and logical conclusion and that is a form of witness but also there's just this sense in jesus words there in the greek at least that a witness is someone who gives their whole self to the story they believe that literally like it's quite an embodied thing and it's quite a holistic thing to be a witness.

And I think if I was to try and tease out the difference between witness and evangelism, it would be that it would be that we live the story we tell.

And we do so in the way we respond to things and the way we react to things and the way we perceive things and the way, you know, so it's quite, it's this like sort of holistic thing.

And then I guess also if we were to try and define what culture is at any given moment, Again, like the joy has been sort of toying this out.

I've landed, maybe it's temporarily, but on this phrase, it's the story we tell ourselves about ourselves and it's the stories we tell each other about each other.

That tends to be what culture consists of.

Like

Yeah,

I mean, of course, the majority of my research is UK based.

But actually, when I was doing my research in the US, there's so much overlap between what I've seen in the UK and what appears to be happening in the US.

But yes, so I...

Basically, to sum up, and then I can get into specifics, what we seem to be seeing is a smorgasbord of spiritual options.

Like it's not quite the case that one story is winning out, that one story is winning all of the curiosity and acting as a magnet for everything.

I feel like just as with everything in our world right now, it's kind of like decentralized.

Can you explain exactly what you mean by that? And the weird relationship you see between manifestation or manifesting and control that we have.