And I guess to start, do telepathy and spelling go hand in hand, or are they different things that can exist separately? I

think it's prudent to separate them.

So I was arguing the other day on the phone.

We were having a lively professional discussion with one of the leading researchers that's anti-spelling.

And we're talking and the conversation basically gets down to, you know, thinking they're being cued.

And I'm arguing that they're not being cued to be cued in that way.

That's impossible.

They're going to plan a

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things along the way? I'm going to tell you a story about a horse.

Okay, great.

This famous horse from 1904.

His name is Clever Hans.

And Clever Hans was discovered to be an intelligent horse who could also read people's minds.

People would travel from all over the world to meet Clever Hans and ask him, how old am I? Or what year was I born? Or mathematical questions, truth or false questions.

With

And I guess to start, do telepathy and spelling go hand in hand, or are they different things that can exist separately?

I think it's prudent to separate them.

And so I was arguing the other day on the phone, or having a lively professional discussion with one of the leading researchers that's anti-spelling.

And we're talking, and the conversation basically gets down to, you know, thinking they're being cued, and I'm arguing that they're not being cued.

To be cued in that way, that's impossible.

And it gets down to, I think, telepathy is more likely than this cueing theory that's been established.

But then in that moment, I have this light bulb of, "Oh my gosh, it doesn't matter." You don't have to say, "Yes, telepathy is happening" in order for com- for the communication to be valid.

[chuckles]

I think your first email was like, "I listened to The Telepathy Tapes, and I couldn't stop thinking that I need to prove it wrong." [laughs]

I was feeling really inspired by the tapes, and I remember thinking, "How has this not been, like, on CNN?" Like, we've proven fricking telepathy, [laughs] people.

How is this not just what everyone's talking about? It's all I could to talk about.

I mean, I was recommending the podcast to everyone.

Like, this is the most clear-cut, you know, captured footage of any kind of psi phenomena that I'd ever heard of.

So, so, um, interested.

So when I, I hadn't seen it.

Okay, great.

I think your first email was like, "I listened to The Telepathy Tapes, and I couldn't stop thinking that I need to prove it wrong." [laughs]

I was feeling really inspired by the tapes, and I remember thinking, "How has this not been, like, on CNN?" Like, we've proven fricking telepathy, [laughs] people.

How is this not just what everyone's talking about? It's all I could to talk about.

I mean, I was recommending the podcast to everyone.

Like, this is the most clear-cut, you know, captured footage of any kind of psi phenomena that I'd ever heard of.

So, so, um, interested.

So when I, I hadn't seen it, I just hadn't really thought much about it, and then I saw that it had been, you know, widely debunked by specialists and was just shocked.

Okay, great.