And I think that's another societal, um, standard that we have to reset for ourselves so what are other ways people men specifically can take back their identity their power

um yeah number so I believe there are two common threads when a man kills himself, but not just suicide.

It's again, the deaths of despair, which is unintended suicide, but suicide impassively.

But then there's the addictions and the depression and all of those things.

And I think there's two common threads.

Number one is a man has lost his purpose.

And number two is a man has lost connection, loneliness.

What inspired that and what does that look like?

What is it that people in those positions or in those stages of life, it's also midlife, right? What is it that people need for support in order to help find their purpose or to have the connections that they need to not feel that kind of on an island loneliness?

Yes, great question.

One of the primary ways, what I call we're defying the clock on that 13 minutes, pushing it back, as you suggested, to 14 minutes, which your listeners should know would be 2,888 men with that one minute would choose to come home this year.

And so one of the ways we're pushing back the clock is through men's peer groups, sort of our sister organization to 13 Minutes Mission.

It's the Upstream Inspiration Initiative.

It is not for men who are grappling with suicide ideation, who are really in the clinical throes of depression, and there are places for him.

But this is for men who are the demographic you described, oftentimes entrepreneurs, business owners, whatnot.

So what are some of those? You mentioned that people, like we do, you know what you're supposed to say, right? So it's like, yeah, to be a good husband, a good dad, a good, you know, blah, blah, blah, right? But what are some of the whys that you've seen people kind of discover through the work of the men's, you know, working with and really digging into that?

In

Kabbalah, Jewish mysticism, there's a principle called shvirat kelim, which means the shattering.

And if you don't know what your life is about and what's going on, don't worry.

You'll have a shattering.

We all do.

Divorce, death, disease, financial despair, devastation.

I call them the dark days.

Is there such thing as someone else intervening and asking questions, you know, to support that person or does it have to come from the individual first?

I'm so excited to have our conversation today.

Yeah, Jude and I only met less than a month ago, but right away it was kismet, kind of a brothers returning, brothers from another mother, because, you know, got the cross and the star of David.

Yeah, yeah, close, yeah.

We got a lot of monotheism represented right here.

And which actually probably isn't insignificant to the work that you and I do.

But our listeners are going to be riveted in this one, as I was at our first meeting and hearing about the work that you're doing.

And also, anybody who's watching this is...

So the guys that don't want to fight, I'm like, you know, if somebody was doing something harmful to them, you'd be fighting against them, right? You are fighting to give them the best thing in their life, which is you involved and present in their life.

And how can that idea of what he went through and the suffering that he went through help someone who's going through grief or loss or just a season where things just don't make any sense anymore? Yeah.

Yeah.

Dr. Frankel would say there's three primary ways to discover meaning.

And he would say, we discover it.

We don't make meaning.

It exists.

It's a soul.

Yeah.

So share a little bit with the visitors your story and walk us through a little bit, you know, a little bit of your story about what happened to your father and how you you're turning that into a or you turn that into a vow to change your family's story.

Yeah, thank you.

Yeah, I'm very open about it.

Wrote the book about it.

It's my second book, which I've mentioned.

So we'll be totally transparent and share here.

But the bottom line is my father was a very outwardly successful human being, a man.

So walk us through exactly, you know, kind of, you know, dads that haven't experienced peer groups, what actually happens in peer groups?

Why do you think he did it from a mirror?

After he killed himself, I wasn't living in the same city, but I obviously hopped on a plane and I was there the next day.

And I went to the room and there was a police report.

And I took the police report.

I kind of reconstructed the room a little bit.

And it's pretty morbid, but you know, we are who we are.

I jumped up and I hung, I saw the notch on the beam where he hung himself and So I looked at the police report and I noticed it was facing a particular direction and I jumped up and I was just hoping I wouldn't see what I thought I was going to see.

Whoa, are you serious? I didn't know that.