What does the chaos look like concretely when HR isn't doing their job?

Well, on a couple levels, it can look like a great place for lawyers to come in and sue you.

So there's that.

But more than that, it It can be a place where, frankly, there's a lot of problems, a lot of frustration with employees, as well as managers, where basically, you know, nobody... takes a job to fail.

And managers don't want to see people who are working for them fail either.

But very often we find ourselves in situations where people are not really able to become successful and they don't understand.

So often it just comes down to we try to approach that problem in so often in terms of understanding, you know, their personality traits and let's understand what sort of abstract qualities they possess or don't possess.

Barry, what's one piece of advice you would give for the leaders listening to the podcast? What can they do to inch their way towards more value-centric leadership?