But where did you begin? I mean, with this love of great expectations, did you study at school or at university? And when did you realise that that you wanted to explore Estella as a character and give her a sort of extended life in your own books.

I studied Great Expectations.

Like many people, I studied it at GCSE and had to study it.

And I very much felt that I had to.

And so I'm ashamed to admit that I actively avoided reading it for most of that time.

It's terrible.

And then finally, I thought, oh, my goodness, I'm going to have to read this.

And would you like to tell our listeners how you in your book reflect, and even if you're even mirroring what Dickens did, how do we reflect that Gothic world in which she spends most of her childhood? The things that we actually see through Pip's eyes, don't we? But you view through Estella's eyes.