Especially those that are not technically

minded.

We need to show them that there's a very simple way to approach this without it becoming a tasking process for them.

One of the things I find with the engagement with students is that as academics and technologists and so on, we would have our views on what we're trying to build and optimize for.

Right.

But what came through a lot of the sessions is the student will say, no, actually, no, this is what I want to see.

That's it.

because you see people going in the other direction, going you can't use the tools, you've got to get a pencil and a paper.