[laughs]

I think, um, I think, you know, I mean, I come across sort of like two, two fields of, of heads of, of sort of tech where, where I'm sitting.

One is the sort of person who's in the room when the strategy's set.

Uh, you know, they're not informed afterwards.

They're part of that decision-making process because they're, they're a more forward-thinking organization that sort of says, "Okay, well, you know, sort of what is it we need to do?" Et cetera.

But you still do have probably 50% of them that I speak to who, you know, technology still sits under a budget, and it's thought of as that way as, as, you know, sort of a fixer of problems rather than a sort of like a, a, somebody you can rely on to sort of like come up with the solutions to the things you wanna do next.

And they, they definitely sit in two, two camps under my, you know, from my experience of speaking to people.

Yeah.