Yeah.

No, it's a good question.

In many ways, it is the question, I think, for people looking into these things.

I mean, in so many ways, the various hot button issues tend to be downstream from this authority question, right? And you could envision it as a big domino.

If you get papal infallibility and you flick that domino, you accept it.

It's like, well, it follows that, OK, you're going to accept these other things, right? I do think there is probably a reverse sense of that as well.

So if something has been infallibly defined and it was to be proven false, well, that would then undo the dominoes going the other way, right? Then, okay, if you said you infallibly...

was.

Mm-hmm

... to say like it's not every conception of purgatory possible.

Um, anyway, we can talk about that if we want.

But, um, it, it seems to me that there's some Catholics who want to say, "Wait, but like if the church believed a pretty heavily satisfaction view for so long, if they had all of these kind of trappings alongside of it, are we not bound to it? Does that not equal something like a quasi-universal teaching of the church?" Um, and then I think others, and it seems you might be in this camp, would be willing to say, "Actually, what's dogmatically defined is, is pretty minimal, and we can allow for the essence of the doctrine to be pretty small.

The accidents around it, the way it's been expressed, the kind of metaphors, imagery, um, speculations about time, place, all of these things, they all, you know, they might be pious or impious opinions to hold, but they're not bound." A- anyway, it seems to me that I see some Catholics today maybe in more traditionalist circles wanting to say like, "Wait, we, we can't just have a minimalist purgatory.

We've gotta, we've gotta go back to the Middle Ages." Maybe can we just touch briefly on, um, your, your case for someone s- who's saying that, like why we can have a little more minimal definition?

Mm-hmm

...

What brought you to your sort of Episcopal home now versus many of the other Catholic Orthodox sort of options that you were looking at?

Yeah, I guess I somehow withstood probably your comments of like come home to Rome in the comment section.

No.

Well, that's cool, though.

I didn't realize you know the channel back then.

So, yeah.

What what was it that led to that? I suppose there's a couple of things like there's on the negative side.

What advice would you give to someone about how do they start figuring out what churches to go to? Is it Google searches? What should they look for? At what point do you just go, let's try in person? At what point do you try another church that's out there? What sort of practical advice and wisdom would you give to someone who's hearing what you're saying and is questioning things, but just wants to get started or maybe paralyzed about getting started?