So why can achieving something we desperately wanted sometimes, why does it leave people empty rather than being fulfilled? I want to understand the psychology behind that.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think, so the starting point with that is what's the nature, what's the anatomy of your ambition, right? Everyone's ambition, again, it's very unique, it's personal to us.

And understanding what that, say, ambitious part of us is, is a very good starting point.

And there are sort of two different pillars in that, right? There are people who are ambitious because they're driven by a need to realize their talent.

So it's like I'm interested in, you know, I work with a lot of engineers in the AI space at the moment, and many of them are super keen and interested in, you know, what that space can achieve and, you know, the creativity that comes with building those algorithms, right? And so they're leaning into their natural strengths, right? Their natural intelligence, aptitudes and interests.

And there's sort of a lightness to it.

So how would you tell those kind of persons to preserve the healthy parts of their ambition while letting go of those parts that came because of their bad experiences?

So what are the s- what are some of the things that you're seeing as the, as the root cause of, of these things that, you know, that, you know, rear their ugly heads 30 years into the future?

I think a couple of things, right? Right? As we get more senior in our careers, it's, to be frank, more isolating, right? You know, when you're the junior level, you're in the trenches and, you know, you can have sort of great friendships and, and, you know, good times.

And as you get more senior, sometimes, you know, peers can become rivals or actually not even that, the fact that everybody you meet wants something from you, right? So obviously your boss wants you to deliver those targets.

You know, your subordinates want you to provide direction or mentoring.

Colleagues, clients want you to deliver.

So there's, uh, there's a transactional element to every relationship, and to be good at that, we develop really good strengths, right? To, with the armor of, of, you know, of, of task maturity, of being able to perform, get stuff done, you know, drive things forward.

So it can become very self-reliant, very sort of stoic.

Like, here are maybe three or four things that you can provide them to, to consider in, in terms of their individual work, uh, in this transition.