They were absolutely right to be fearful of war." In court today, do you think it occurs to the people running the criminal justice system that maybe the protesters today might be vindicated by history?

Uh, Lucy, that's a very interesting question, and the reason I say that is if I could maybe go back to 2003, just before the Iraq War, and there's a case, it's called Margaret Jones and Others, and there is a, uh, a bit of a speech in his judgment from Lord Hoffman, and he talks about the conscientious motives of those engaged in civil disobedience and the fact that history often vindicates them.

And so it's important for the state to act in a way that doesn't overpenalize individuals.

That was a case pre-Iraq War.

Um, it was a number of individuals who some broke into the RAF base in Fairford.

They were charged with a number of different offenses arising out of that civil disobedience, including things like criminal damage, and it's then when, and looking at those offenses, that Lord Hoffman says this about their actions and about the fact that history can vindicate individuals.

It's quite an interesting case as well because one of those individuals in that case was in fact represented by our current Prime Minister, Keir Starmer

Do protesters today share sort of insider knowledge of what the system's going to do to them like that?