Um, you know, what, what percentage would you say of, of Elon Musk is a force for good, and what percentage would you say is a force for not good?

good?Uh, I don't know how, a- and I did not appreciate your framing of, you know, he, he runs these companies that do electric vehicles and have all this technology, that frankly would've come into existence without Elon, uh, because it's the engineers who are the real brains behind this.

But I think all of that is negated by everything that he is doing currently.

That what he is doing on X and Twitter, and the hate that he is pushing out.

If you remember, a few months ago he was violently pushing out this movie, Citizen Vigilante, and Piers, I'm not sure if you saw that movie, but it cannot be interpreted as anything less than an incitement to violence against immigrants and brown people.

I think all of that, that in itself negates so much good.

I think, uh, genuinely, I hope that he surrounds himself with people who start telling him no.

What you think he's, what does he need help for, do you think?

She is perhaps best known to many for having a baby with Elon Musk before she left the MAGA movement in search of a new political home and faced backlash.

What breaking from Elon meant was also breaking from MAGA because he is now this godlike figure on the right.

But their own behavior and their own mismanagement caused me to rethink, like, hey, are they just demonizing a group of people to obfuscate from real issues? It really hurt me to think about the way that I helped push that.

Are you a Republican? Are you a Democrat now?

So I am a dues-paying member of DSA, but I...

Oh, you're a DSA member? Yeah.

There's an appropriate identification of the issue on both ends of the spectrum, that there is something seriously wrong happening.

It is the correct identification.

Um-

And that's why back in January, one of the first conversations I had publicly after being offline for so long was actually with Matt Bernstein on the A Bit Fruity podcast and with a transgender advocate, June.

That was one of the first major conversations I had because I wanted so deeply to make amends and to apologize, and I'm still working on making amends and what does that look like, and there's still so much regret i- in my heart when I see some of these headlines about what the Trump administration is doing, and what the answer is to make that right.

Like, how do you make amends for being a part of, of such harmful rhetoric? I, I believe all of this would've happened without me, but I still have to take accountability for my own contribution and my own harm.

Mm-hmm

... where I, I just liked that validation from the internet.

And as a young girl who's going through college and you're getting all these social media followers and envisioning that.

You're like, "Oh, I have 10,000 followers.

Tell me about your decision to participate in this.

The decision to participate in the documentary was similar to my decision to speak out against MAGA or speak out generally just about my experiences.

Uh, and, and part of it came down to wanting to set an example for my children about speaking truth.

Uh, obviously, as many people know, and I've said many times before, but maybe some of your audience doesn't know, but I was offered a forty million dollar NDA to not speak.

And so when something like that happens, you really decide, well, why are they offering me this amount of money not to speak? What does it mean to speak? Am I on board with everything this individual is doing? Um, a- and what is the point of, of having free speech if you don't use it? Um, and free speech actually turns out to be very expensive, but it was part of that wanting to set an example and hopefully I think courage is contagious, and I really feel for a lot of the people, especially the other women in this situation, who feel like they cannot speak or legally they cannot speak.

And so that was another contributing factor.

Mm-hmm

... or, you know, any of these figures, and just that dopamine from the social media validation that they get from being in these group chats, and they're all retweeting each other and growing their followers, and they'll share their follower updates, and now they're monetized on Twitter.

Tell me about your decision to participate in this.

The decision to participate in the documentary was similar to my decision to speak out against MAGA or speak out generally just about my experiences.

Uh, a- and part of it came down to wanting to set an example for my children about speaking truth.

Uh, obviously, as many people know, and I've said many times before, but maybe some of your audience doesn't know, but I was offered a $40 million NDA to not speak.

And so when something like that happens, you really decide, well, why are they offering me this amount of money not to speak? What does it mean to speak? Am I on board with everything this individual was doing? Um, a- and what is the point of, of having free speech if you don't use it? Um, and free speech actually turns out to be very expensive, but it was part of that wanting to set an example and hopefully, I think courage is contagious, and I really feel for a lot of the people, especially the other women in this situation, who feel like they cannot speak or legally they cannot speak, and so that was another contributing factor.

What, what's your sense on that?

I would tend to agree with that assessment because at this point, you, you have to understand the positioning of Elon at this point.

He had been speaking about AI for so long.

D- do you feel like this documentary, number one, exposes a lot of the facade that Elon has built around his online aura? And number two, um, do you think this documentary plays culturally with where we are right now as a huge resistance guardrail?

Yes, and it's, uh, it was difficult, really, at times, because I've been saying the things I have, but there's this part of you, I don't want to be right.

I, like, this is the time where you don't wanna be right, especially when it's so close to home.

Um, but to see these things, particularly the section on USAID, and, uh, like I said, autopilot and full self-driving, it, it's rough.

Um, there's also i- inquiry into the EV credits and how they built that, and I think Gibney does a really fantastic job of really showing everyone how he got to where he is now, and what that implication is for everyone else.

And so the real question is, what is anyone gonna do afterwards? Is there gonna be inquiry? Are people going to push their legislators to do something about this, to have some sort of inquiry? I think it's gonna be really difficult for people to walk away from this film and not have that feeling.

[laughs]

But [laughs] so I...

So maybe best way to start is really for you to introduce yourself in the context of this journey to our audience.

I have to preface this too by saying apologies because I am almost positive I have probably cyber bullied you in my MAGA days because it's like a prerequisite to being in MAGA because you're a very popular figure for us to cyber bully.

But I got my start very young.

As soon as I, when I started college, Right before I started college, there was a Trump rally on my campus.

So I was immediately going to that and seeing this energy around it.

And then I joined college.

I had a bit more of a cerebral side because I was homeschooled in high school.

implication the election was stolen all the conspiracy theories and yes i knew it you had my friends i told you so i'm like oh god what's going on here so tell us

And what's the plan at the end of it? And talk a little bit more about your work to protect other women from the AI sex images.

so well it's not just the ai sexual abuse material i think it's ai as a whole but i had always wanted to go to law school i originally went to school for philosophy with intentions of going to law school and then i dropped out and ended up being in maga full time and so the way i view it is meeting ashley where i left her and that's been really healing for me to like go back and and do these things and so i'm really excited i'm hoping that it gives me the tools necessary to affect lasting change i really really want to help reform some of these systems particularly that have been difficult for me because i am privileged and i do have access to knowledge and resources even if it's not material resources i have access to very knowledgeable people and privileged people that and it's still so difficult for me to navigate this system and if it's that difficult for me, what the fuck is it like for everyone else? And so I really want to help reform what I believe is severe misjustice within our judicial system, as well as hold some of these companies accountable, because the way I look at it, like especially neoliberalism rose with the gains that we had in civil rights and suffrage.

in tandem like right on the heels of that you see this rise of neoliberalism and this economization of democracy which i think has been really harmful um the the wealthy effectively went to the courts and complained that they and corporations or some political minorities in need of like civil rights protections and they expanded the definitions of speech and personhood itself to these entities that You know, cases like Buckley v. Vallejo and Citizens United have really just torn apart our democracy.

And so that's going to be the central area of my focus is addressing those issues of inequity.

Is that what you saw?

No, I think MAGA was really good at creating this emotional imagery of what the left and what socialists were in this.

Anytime people in MAGA would think of a liberal, they'd think of these screaming blue haired people.

And that was really effective.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

And so I really want to help, uh, reform what I believe is severe misjustice within our judicial system, as well as hold some of these companies accountable because the way I look at it, like especially neoliberalism rose with the gains that we had in civil rights and suffrage in tandem.

Like, right on the heels of that you see this rise of neoliberalism and this economization of democracy, which I think has been really harmful.

Um, the, the wealthy ef- effectively went to the courts and complained that they and corporations or some- Political minorities in need of, like, civil rights protections, and they expanded the definitions of speech and personhood itself to these entities that, y- you know, cases like Buckley v. Valeo and Citizens United have really just torn apart our democracy.

And so that's gonna be the, the central area of my focus, is addressing those issues of inequity.

To what extent did the MAGA influencers you met really believe what they were talking about, or to what extent do you think they were doing it for attention and fame?

I think it varies.

I think there's, you know, the...

I'm not at liberty to discuss it further, but I think anyone with more than a third-grade reading comprehension level knows what I was saying there.

And throughout this, there are also people still making images and videos of me being burned at the stake, and people running away with my baby in their arms, made by Grok.

Also very present in this discourse is a lot of MAGA Republicans, right-wingers, saying that I'm only doing this to grift, as if this is beneficial to me at all.

But MAGA and the Republicans live in such a hive mind mentality.

I used to date a very prominent right-wing Instagrammer.

I don't know, bad time in my life, but he always drove into my head.

Mind you, I was 20 years old, dating this, this 36-year-old man.

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Get ready with me while I talk about the entire world finding out I had a secret baby with Elon Musk.

For those who don't know, my name is Ashley St. Clair.

I was a MAGA influencer involved in MAGA politics for almost a decade.

I know.

Now, I had to take a break because First of all, I've never spoken about so much of this publicly, and it's just a lot.

There's a lot of trauma.

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This, the way you're speaking now is more high-minded and circumspect than, like, "Look at these people being shipped on our dollar," and, like, throwing that on X.

Yeah, I suppose.

Um, however, nobody knew what was happening.

Um, nothing was very transparent about the, the way things were happening, and again, I regret posting that and regret being a part of that.

However, there were also issues with the lack of transparency into the immigration crisis that was happening that I think could have resolved a lot of issues if there was transparency into how certain situations were being handled.

Because why was this happening? Why were people not saying, "Hey, you know, you might see people that are immigrants that are, you know, being transported to other areas where they can live safer"? It was just kind of...

Nobody knew what was going on at that time, um, which is why it was front and center, which is why the Democratic Party, um, I believe, took the wrong step and moderated their positions on immigration and started taking more of a Trumpian aspect on it.

Is it because of motherhood? Had you not become a mother, would you have, um, continued, uh, you know, in the MAGA, um, vein?

Like when, how? Like-

Just in a, in a party sense, on New Year's randomly.

Like, he, he was so paranoid about being drug tested, too.

I think that's why he does the ketamine, so that he has, like, the script for it, you know? If there's a drug test, he can say, "Well, I have the script." Um, but he was really paranoid, particularly during this in-between time of the administrations.

He was, he was scared they were gonna take his fingernails and, like, fingernail drug test him.

Um-

... is, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah

... because the executives at X, Joe Benarroch, whatever his last name is, he was reaching out to me and other influencers and providing us confidential information about your contract negotiations with X, with Twitter, because he wanted us to disseminate this about and smear you.

I know.

Um, so yeah, they were leaking this, but it also shows the ways in which him and his agents, his operators will just, as soon as there's a flip, that he just goes and then he operationalizes his platforms and his agents and these influencers to do his dirty work.

And

so he passes away.

And I happen to be outside of Fox Studios because I was at Delmonico's or Del Frisco's, whatever it is right there.

Del Frisco's.

Del Frisco's.

And he had just passed away.

And he's just on the lower third.

No, I'm

burger yes the former please get out of the way yeah and i knew bernard kirk he would be on my show at one point he became a reasonable person and then he went off the deep end he was he was nice and

so he passes away and i happen to be outside of fox studios because i was at del monaco's or del frisco's whatever it is right there del frisco's and he had just passed away and it's he's just on the lower third Bernard dies.

And then it goes to Greg Gutfeld playing some stupid game.

And I was like, for them to take someone who did so much for them and he becomes a lower third and then it transitions to Greg Gutfeld being a silly little goose.

These people are just not serious.

And I was like, please just don't put me on screen instead of putting me as a lower third before Greg Gutfeld's games.

And to me, I'm like, this is just... such a joke like it didn't feel real I'm like he died and he did so much for you and now he's reduced to a lower third before Greg's game

I'm

How, does that just change overnight, or did you believe that stuff? Like, what, where does that come from?

I think i- it's framed from, you know, my particular issue that I spoke a lot about was in regard to t- trans youth, and it's framed in this way that, oh, you're protecting children.

You're protecting women and children.

Um, and then the more I interacted with actual trans people or actual people who, you know, had trans children, it was, it changes.

I also worked a lot with Libs of TikTok, Chaya Raichik, and I would see her motivation towards virality and engagement and the way that she was treating some of these individuals, and I'm, like, begging her not to doxx children, and it, it just caused me to reconsider, and I hadn't been exposed to a lot of that, and I am deeply regretful for the harm that I contributed to in that regard, and I'm trying to do the best I can to, to understand that now and take back what I can.

I know I'll never be able to, like, put the pieces all back together, but trying to understand what I didn't want to.

Why not? Why do you believe that?

Um, he...

Does that just change overnight or did you believe that stuff? Like, where does that come from?

I think it's framed from, you know, my particular issue that I spoke a lot about was in regard to trans youth.

And it's framed in this way that, oh, you're protecting children, you're protecting women and children.

And then the more I interacted with actual trans people or actual people who, you know, had trans children, it was...

It changes.

I also worked a lot with Libs at TikTok, Haya Raishak, and I would see her motivation towards virality and engagement and the way that she was treating some of these individuals.

And I'm like begging her not to dox children.

Well.

You know, you, you, you describe a what? A DM? That's how he reached out to you, just 'cause he was impressed with some of the stuff you were posting.

Yeah, it was at the Babylon Bee, which he had an affinity for at that time, and he ended up DM'ing me, and then we met at, uh, Twitter headquarters, what have you.

But even in his private conversations with me, that's another instance of co-opting.

I, I really do believe that he finds the, these populous movements, whether in the United States or the UK or Germany, and he, he realizes that they're very easy to co-opt and manipulate for his own agenda of basically digitizing these governments and, and getting an insurmountable amount of data.

And, you know, that's one conversation I did want to have with you and just ask you, because California was kind of at the forefront of this, and-Allowed for a lot of these, uh, Silicon Valley and these tech companies to fester under California.

And I guess the question I have for you is, like Silicon Valley didn't just build software, it's built something that are, the civilizational scale experiment that is unreasonably safe.

And so why, at least in California, was innovation considered like the sufficient excuse and capitalism considered the sufficient e- excuse and justification to expose the public to such risk? And the most important question I have for you is, did California become so economically dependent on Silicon Valley that it lost the ability to act as an independent watchdog for these organizations? And, and why was so much of this allowed to be built, and are there any regrets that you have?

So tell, tell us

I mean, this actually seems kind of fun.

So, I don't know what you guys are trying to do.

Like, they're making it like Hasan's my next fucking target that I'm laser eye locking on.

I mean, if he wants, but no, I'm kidding.

But what's So Fox News somehow gets this reporting that Hasan is being subpoenaed by the feds over his trip to Cuba, the humanitarian trip he took with the woman from Code Pink and yada yada who, okay? This is just round two of weaponizing the federal government against your dissidents.

And let's not forget, okay, they've been doing this, this Red Scare bullshit.

Need I remind you, Helen Keller was on the FBI watch list for her communist sentiments, okay? Like, these people have no low.

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And I guess I haven't spoken about the truth because the truth is much more embarrassing.

In fact, I wish that this was just a story about how someone baby trapped the richest man in the world.

No, the truth is actually much more embarrassing because the truth is that I actually, I actually liked this man, okay? The truth is much more embarrassing because, like many people, I unfortunately believed in this man.

The truth is much more embarrassing because I took the words out of his mouth at face value.

And sure, I did start posting about rockets and AI a bit more, but that's because being in a room alone with this man, and I call it, like, the Elon effect because I've seen this happen, especially, like, with different members in our government now and officials.

To hear him talk about space and this higher cause for humanity, especially as a young girl in her young, her, her early twenties, it was captivating at the time.

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So as someone who's been on both sides of this divide, I have to ask, what was your wake-up call? What did you read? What did you see? Who did you talk to that made you think, "You know what? I've gotten this all wrong for the last few years"?

There were a lot of things.

I- it happened slowly and then all at once.

So there were moments that I would have friends who were trans that I was like, "Oh, wow, you know, these are not actually evil people who want to trans all the children." Um, there were moments that I would read certain items, and I'm embarrassed to say, but I had never read a slave narrative until my mid-20s.

Um, and there's a reason that they want to keep people away from CRT, from certain language.

The information sequestering that they do, you're not allowed to read the mainstream media.

Um, all of these things are, um, labeled as propaganda.

You are, I believe, a Jewish woman, uh, so I've got to ask, what were you doing in a room with people like that?

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Get ready with me while I tell you about the paid agitators in MAGA politics from Turning Point to Libs of TikTok.

For those who don't know, my name is Ashley St. Clair.

I was a MAGA influencer involved in MAGA politics for almost a decade.

I know.

Now, I wanna talk about this because within the right wing and MAGA, it is prolific that they are obsessed with George Soros and calling Democrats paid activists, and the radical left is all paid.

But what there is not enough attention on is how much of the MAGA influencer sphere is propped up on paid agitation, and I'm gonna focus primarily on my experiences with companies and individuals like Libs of TikTok, Turning Point, and my former company that Benny Johnson had co-founded.

Just click on claytonhotels.com. Clayton Hotels, where it's personal.

now when donald trump jr

Kimberly's which they refer to as KG their relationship started going south and Don met Bettina there was a storm brewing behind the scenes in which people were trying to sabotage Bettina because and I do feel bad for Kimberly she was according to a a very distraught over this and trying to place lots of negative media about Bettina all over the press.

They were spreading rumors that Bettina was always high on shrooms, that she was just a gold digger, yada yada hoo.

Now AA was discussing Kimberly's appointment as the ambassador to Greece and AA was a bit, uh, conflicted about Kimberly's appointment to be this ambassador because in her own words, there were about 20 donors and two congressmen who also wanted the position.

Which is a bit curious because why, why are donors high on the priority list for political appointments? Not once in this conversation did anybody say, there's people who would be much better ambassadors to Greece and have the qualifications, at least more qualifications than Don Jr.'s ex-girlfriend for this position.

No, no.

What they were considering is, hey, we have some favors to do for donors and this might fuck things up.

I also hated having panic attacks.

Mm-hmm

... and got caught up in it.

But the issue with them is that then you get caught up, and they, they tell you you don't need college.

So then I drop out of college, then I'm financially dependent on this cult.

I'm cut off from information because everything is fake news.

I'm told not to trust my professors, not to trust anyone except, you know, Twitter and Fox News, and you just get caught up.

I explain it in the way that changing...

I do think that if they could do it, they would rig it