Yeah.

Um, but then after those five years, that's when I got into tech, and when I got into tech was when I went from an individual contributor, so program manager, to a vice president in five years.

Um, and the thing that kind of led to that growth for me was I wasn't in the right industry for me in those first five years.

Like, I was actually super interested in what was going on in my space.

Wow.

They all got it.

Um, and then one that scales or one that doesn't require an investment is always sending a personal note.

I think that helped me a lot with building relationships.