Mm.

And, you know, th- there's, there's just so much...

There's such a lack of knowledge about what happens after birth.

I think we often, as I did, go into it thinking there, there's the fourth trimester, and by then, you know, you get your sign-off, and then you go back to normal.

But it's just not the reality.

And even speaking about something like prolapse, there's so many women that have come to me saying they didn't even know it was a possibility to get prolapse un- at least until they were much, much older, uh, or they've been kind of l- gaslit by medical professionals.

So any time I talk about it, it, it's just so nice that even if it helps one person feel like they're not alone or that there is no stigma.

Mm-hmm

Yeah.

Well, let's talk about the word you just said, ethical selling, because that's the biggest pushback I hear from providers is I don't want to be a salesperson.

I don't want to be pushy.

I've even had providers tell me that it's unethical to sell.

And the reality of it is, is you're in the wrong business then, if that's the case, because selling is really just educating.

It is your job as a provider to uncover really what the patient needs and what their solution and goals that they're looking for are so that you can provide the education, the recommendations, and then put a treatment plan together that is ethical, that does achieve their goals.

and makes them feel happy and beautiful.

So you're Susan, I'm

Yeah.

Well, let's talk about the word you just said, ethical selling, because that's the biggest pushback I hear from providers is I don't want to be a salesperson.

I don't want to be pushy.

I've even had providers tell me that it's unethical to sell.

And the reality of it is, is you're in the wrong business then, if that's the case, because selling is really just educating.

It is your job as a provider to uncover really what the patient needs and what their solution and goals that they're looking for are so that you can provide the education, the recommendations, and then put a treatment plan together that is ethical, that does achieve their goals.

and makes them feel happy and beautiful.

So you're Susan, I'm

Mm.

And then when I was really wanting to leave him for v- like, whether it was because of work commitments, whether it was just to have, like, a break or to go to Pilates or whatever it was, I couldn't even leave him long enough.

So when I did the Jeremy Vine Show, he was in the green room, and I was only on for a few minutes, but I ended up breastfeeding him on TV, which was, like, totally unplanned.

And I remember at the time feeling frustrated of, like, I don't wanna be Ashley the mum.

I felt like my whole identity had become about motherhood, and I was probably, like, doing too much to try and get back to work to show I'm still Ashley.

I can DJ.

I can talk about topics unrelated to motherhood.

But tell us a bit about that and why you decided [laughing] to do it.

So it's like, oh, okay, at least I'm valued and, you know, someone's giving me attention.

Yeah.

And I suppose it's like that we crave that external validation.

I remember when I first found out that boys and men found me attractive, it felt like I'd won the lottery because I was like me.

Yeah.

Because I'd never been made to feel like special or anything in my life.

And I was like quite nerdy.

And it just made me so sad for them because how beautiful would it be if they had a truly powerful man? And to me, that is someone that's in tune with their emotions and their softness and their empathy and their kindness to guide them and to lead them.

No carbs before marbs.

And so then I kind of...

Yeah, no carbs.

I mean, it was pre no carbs before marbs, but it was very much that.

Like, and so as I moved to London and got into my, um, 20s and lived with a group of girls, we'd almost, like, try to go without eating as long as we could throughout the day.

And then when one of us cracked, it would be like, "Oh, we're gonna have to go to the gym now." So I think it was such a toxic attitude.

It was just constant, like, restriction and punishment, restriction, punishment.

Um, what propelled you to come out and speak about that so openly?

[laughs]

So I'd be like, "One, two, three, four, five." And I was like, "What is my life? Is this, is this meant to complete us? Is this enough?" And I felt a sense of regret.

And obviously, it's a very tricky and nuanced topic that I speak mu- in much more detail about in Bimbo.

But I would Google, like, "Is it normal to regret motherhood?" And what people always say to me is, "What do you think your son will think when he grows up and one day sees you talking about this?" And I always say, "Well, if he ever decides to have children or, uh, his sister or his friends, hopefully he might understand what his partner or the women in his life might, might be going through." Because I think if, if men were the mothers, and they were told their whole life, "Get a career, be successful, do all of these things," and suddenly you almost are expected to take this time out and kind of adopt this complete different personality and put everything on hold.

And against, by the way, I should say, a system that doesn't really, like, value you and support you.

And it was this real light bulb moment for me that I was like, "Oh my God, moms aren't just negative.

It's actually like the system isn't set up for us to thrive." And I'd feel envious that Tommy could just go back to work and shut the door, whereas I was trying to work, but through breast pumping and, you know, all of those things.

What made you wanna pick up this book?

And do you feel like that was a change that happened more in your 30s, or did it start to happen in your 20s?

No, I think the real, like, point for me was when I was 27, I went through a breakup.

It was the first guy I'd lived with.

It wasn't actually a very long relationship, but when it ended, it was really hurtful because, A, he was the only person I'd lived with.

But also I think that invisible timeline that so many of us have, um, again, because as we mentioned earlier, even though we have evolved so much in terms of like laws and freedoms that women now have, and even though we don't exist in a time where we literally had to get married for survival and social status and financial protection, a lot of the expectations haven't actually evolved that much.

So we still think, "I'm running out of time.

If I'm not married and have a house and, and a baby by 30, I've left it too late," or, "I'm left on the shelf," or, "I won't be chosen.

So what would you say are the most practical steps you've taken to really increase that confidence or that difference between 30s and 20s?

[laughs]

Whereas actually that's exactly what's happening now with, like, the term woke or even back in the day if you look at, like, the term spinster.

They were the original independent women because they spun wool for a living.

So they were s- basically some of the only women to actually be able to live independently from men, and obviously that was weaponized because spinster ca- became this sort of, like, horror story of what might happen to you if you're not picked and chosen by a man.

Um, so I really, really believe that we have to, like, embrace the word feminism and anyone that feels excluded by it.

Why? Because it is literally equality.

But obviously we need to push women's rights forward in the same way that we need to fight against white supremacy.

So in the UK we're like, "Oh, well, we don't have it as bad as in America 'cause it's so expensive." It's like instead of perhaps us comparing, we should be like, "Well, how about we both deserve to have amazing postnatal care?" You talked about your sister and hers, and like how well she did and-

Yeah,

totally.

Whereas actually that's exactly what's happening now with like the term woke or even back in the day, if you look at like the term spinster, they were the original independent women because they spun wool for a living.

So they were basically some of the only women to actually be able to live independently from men.

And obviously that was weaponized because spinster became this sort of like horror story of what might happen to you if you're not picked and chosen by a man.

And so I really, really believe that we have to embrace the word feminism and anyone that feels excluded by it.

Why? Because it is literally equality.

Do you find when you get comments like that, that it drives you? more like fuels you more for the sort of like mission and message that you have or does it like upset you um

It feels very kind of joyful and it's full of life.

Thank you.

I think, um, I always try to come at anything from a point of, you know, I'm not trying to pretend to be super intellectual, or I don't want people to read it and be like, "Well, I don't know any of this." I always try to just speak from like personal experience and f- and in a way that ...

'Cause I feel like we're all, none of us are born knowing any of this stuff, so it's almost like my life lesson-

Of course.

And especially 'cause I talk about a lot of feminist topics on TV, I sometimes think like, "Would I be a target?" But then it, it, it worries me, I feel like we all hold our keys between our hands and, you know, we've always had all of those worries.

So knowing that there are networks of men who actively hate women and talk about assaulting us and killing us and, you know, we see how that has played out in various news stories.

But then to think that my son... 'Cause this is the thing, they, they infiltrate computer games and all of these-

So no longer having kids at a younger age necessarily, but what does it make

any difference? And also note that it's all, the blame is always on the woman.

I know loads of people that would have loved to have had kids younger and they can't find an emotionally available place mateable man.

And a lot of them, like one of my friends now is in her 40s, she spent a fortune on IVF and people are like, oh, you should have started sooner.

With who? Because then if she picked the wrong guy, people would have blamed her for making the wrong choice.

At some point, we need to appreciate that it's not all down to, like we can't just click our fingers and A, be impregnated.

Like you have no idea about people who want kids and are in a relationship where they could have kids.

Yeah.

before you had, like, literally became a mother and Tommy became a father, did you know that Tommy was going to be everything you wanted him to be as a father? Or did you feel like you had to kind of give him a heads up on a few things? No,

well...

I didn't want children and he really wanted children.

So actually one of our really early conversations, I said, oh, don't know about children, never really wanted them.

So if that's a deal breaker for you, I might not be the right person for you.

So interestingly, he was always the one who was, I'm gonna say like more into children or more paternal.

And I remember even like being heavily pregnant, being like, when am I supposed to start liking kids? So I think in a way I went into motherhood almost naively because I was like, he's going to be the one that's more on it with the kids.

Whereas now you've just blossomed and bloomed into this most magnificent body positive

Take us back to teenage Ashley and why you think she should have read this or would have had this, this would have been useful to her.

I think when I was a teenager, I feel like I probably, I don't want to speak for all women and girls, but as a teenager, it was the first time that I really, really noticed double standards and a different set of rules placed on boys and girls.

And I say this as a boy mom, and I think a lot of the rules that are set up for boys are also very harmful and also prevent them from being the best version and most authentic versions of themselves.

But in turn that often harms women and girls.

And I went to an all boys school where there were 37 girls and over 500 boys.

And it was an all boys rugby school up until the point that we started.

I started at 14.

What is the negative stuff like for you to handle? And what is it? And what sort of comments and things are being said?

And for you as a young person, that is a horrendous thing to have to go through.

Yeah.

And, you know, there were lots of other experiences.

And I talk about in the book about, you know, my experience at university where I was raped and I've never talked about it, but I think about it every day.

And I remember having a discussion with a friend saying, I don't know whether to put this in the book or not, because I still feel a sense of obviously upset because it's something... that I feel like really does take something huge away from you.

But also I didn't come forward and it actually took me a long time.

It was only when I told an ex at the time and he was like, no, you were raped.

Just giving them shit