So when you were at Bell Labs, um, uh, I'm-- this is early in your career, um, was there a challenge that forced you, uh, to grow faster than you expected?

You know, Bell Labs was a complete learning experience.

It really-- Probably my first interesting challenge came with my next job.

I went from Bell Labs to a, a smaller startup company, and that transition was really eye-opening.

Uh, I went to a company called Weiss Technologies, and literally, I was recruited by the founders of the company, Bernie and Grace Tse.

And they were at a very explosive company that, Weiss was, uh, a company that built terminals, uh, for mainframe computers at the time.

And my first day, I came in and I, uh, went to HR, and then, uh, they took me down to where I was gonna work, and I said, "So where's my office?" And they said, "It's right here." And it was just an empty cubicle.

Mm-hmm.